Transcript
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Rachel, hello and welcome to teenagers.
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Untangled the audio hug for parents and kids going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards parenting coach, journalist, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now, my eldest, well, she's nearly 18, and we did a little experiment where I brought her into the studio, and you listeners loved it. So Phoebe's back. Welcome, darling.
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Hi. Here's some feedback. Yeah.
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So this is from the boatwood on Facebook. Your daughters are delightful, and the Apple didn't fall far from the tree. So many wonderful insights in this conversation. I'd also like to point out just how important conversations are around food and nutrition appropriate for our life stage. I think she's right where my daughter experiences puberty and eye perimenopause, I'm eating differently to how she's seen me eat her whole life as I try to balance my needs and provide her with the support and information she needs to grow into a healthy woman. So much to say about this topic. Thank you. And by the sounds of it, Phoebe wants in on this whole podcasting. What do you think? Phoebe,
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yeah,
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no, I love that point, actually. And that's I think we sort of need to be explicit that when because I've gone through the menopause and our needs do change. And you made an amazing point, which was, when you're young, you're looking up at on social media people who are much older than you, and you're thinking, you need to be like that, and you don't, and we need to say, Well, I'm in a different life stage, and be a little bit more explicit sometimes about our different needs. Yeah, precisely, you're reading a book at the moment that you've been raving about. How did you come across this book? To start
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with, I was sat on the train on my own, which is actually quite enjoyable, because I love people watching, and I was sat across from this girl, and she was completely absorbed in a book. And it was this one. It's called a little life. And I just thought that is so cool. Firstly, reading on train. It's so underrated. But I think anyone who reads on a train is incredibly cool. And I was like, I want to do that. I want to be like that. So I was like, if she's cool and she's reading a little life, then love that, then I'm going to do the same.
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And you've just started, what do you think I
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got it? Literally got it yesterday, and I'm already quite a bit of the way through it, but I think it's an incredible book.
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It's really well written. It's about four graduates who moved to New York, and they're all broke, and they're, you know, they're all best friends, and it just kind of follows their lives. And it's written so well, because you get perspectives on each of their lives, but, you know, they you zoom in significantly into, you know what they're thinking and, you know the things that they're doing, but it doesn't feel, you know, the transition is really seamless. It doesn't feel choppy and change at all. Whereas some, a lot of modern novels are kind of like, this is Adam, and then this is Karen, like each chapter is a new person. It's just so, so jarring. But yeah, this is this beautiful. So
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I think they call it psychic distance, and that, that ability to get into their brain, into their mind, and what they're doing and seeing. And then, yeah, again, it's quite it's very well, but I'm very so I'm going to have to read that after you. I'm reading a book called Mad woman's ball, which I raised. This is really the book. It's been sitting on my shelf. I don't know. I
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can't remember what the name is. I was like,
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it's a really good book. I won't go on a bus anyway. There's a couple of book recommendations, right? Read
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on the train, please?
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Yes. It's so cool. Yeah, I think people we spend so much of our lives kind of absorbed into our phones, absorbed by our phones, and it's just so so what's the word ungratifying? Yeah, in guy clay, I don't know, but you just don't gain anything from it. And we're being told what to think by what we're seeing on our phones, whereas when you read a book, you take what you can and your own interpretation correct,
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it's a much more engaged experience. And I saw a really good point made by someone the other day, which was that when you get to the end of a book that you loved, it's a sort of you have to pause. You can't just move on to the next book. But it's not like that.
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With a lot of media, you know, they just Netflix, they just show you the next film, literally, as you're looking at the credits, there's, have you watched this film? Whereas with books, you told me that with the book you're reading, yeah, it's what they slept with it. They
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slept with you like, they're like, it's a hardcover, 700 pages, and I've been going to bed every night. I can't let go. I can't wait. I can't wait till it makes you cry. I'm looking forward to the ending.
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Okay.
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Anyway, yeah, and I want to talk about this 18 to 22 stage. I know you're not there yet. You're on the brink of it. And. Empty nesting for parents. But first one listener saw a piece written by Caitlyn Moran, who, if you're not in England, you probably don't know her, but she's a highly entertaining and thoughtful commentator, and she'd stood out with a group of teen girls vaping, and asked them what was how things were going. And she said they told her they're not okay because the boys aren't okay, and the boys are taking it out on the girls. And it was our poor listener messaged me to say, it sounds really bleak. And is it really like that? Are boys really sort of taking out their misery on girls? What do you think Phoebe? Well,
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firstly, I think this is quite poor from Caitlin,
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because normally she's, we're pan aren't we, yeah. But also, she wrote that
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book about boys, yeah.
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So to come out with an article purely from a group of vaping girls at face value, and then write an article about Phoebe, she
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needs to put bread on the table. It's more commentators do, I just pick a subject, write about it, yeah, but yeah, I
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don't think it's that way at all. I think, I mean, obviously you're going to, you're going to, you're going to get boys and girls who are like that, no like but I have a few male friends who don't fit that description at all. And I think that's, you know, as you say, like, really bleak, quite cynical,
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I would add, I would add to that, that, you know, I can remember being your age. I remember it very well.
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And there were basically different types of boys. You've got the, I mean, I went to a sort of state funded college, which wasn't particularly good, but you know, you really had a range of boys, and what blew my mind was when you met boys who were unbelievably articulate, able to express themselves and their feelings, and were were keen to work on it and have conversations. Yeah, is that still happening,
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definitely. I mean, some of my male, male friends are extremely emotionally aware, very kind of introspective and and I've even mentioned it some of them, and they're like, Oh, yeah. Like, that's something that I've been working on. Thank you. And I'm like, it's, it's just so nice. It's so refreshing to hear that. And, yeah, I think, I think there are so many boys out there who are who are really in touch with with themselves, and I don't think they're given enough credit at all. No,
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and I think we need to be careful of I know that boys are struggling in education. I know that the online world can be quite toxic and negative, but I also think that the zeitgeist is showing a huge number of teenagers who are genuinely interested in how they can make the world a better place. Yeah, they can express themselves better.
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I think that narrative is really unhelpful for boys who are trying to work on themselves as well, not not even just work on themselves, but just who are who don't fit this Callan Caitlin Moran stereotype, yeah, because they're not, you know, they're not being acknowledged, and they're not, yeah, we
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don't see them.
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We're not making them visible.
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And there are lots of them too.
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So I think, yes. So in a nutshell, there are guys like that, but they're not everywhere, right? So we have an old friend who has a couple of daughters, and one of them's now 24 she was homeschooled in America, and she's now moved to London, and he was chatting to me about her, and I suddenly thought, wow, for years, they were a really tight family, and now suddenly she's in London, and her parents aren't seeing her, and there was a wave of sadness, and I suddenly thought, wow, that's that's gonna happen at some point to me too. I mean, my but your oldest sister, you told me it
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was azerbaija.
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I got confused, and she's in Turkey at the moment. We went to visit her, but, but the point is, you know, she's got this amazing career.
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She's now a digital nomad. She's able to do she's following her dreams. And this is incredible, yeah, but it's, it's that adjustment, because what what happened? There was a mental leap from where I am at the moment to where I'm going to be, and it feels painful. And I suppose I want to talk about this, because I think it's all about looking forward and adjusting, and it's the same. So I want to talk about it with you, because I think you're going to have to go through the same stages, because it's all about transition. Yeah, so, and I'll just mention another thing that I read, which was by it was a tweet by going Godward, and she said, I really feel like parenting is harder when your kids are 18 to 22 than when they're naught to four. The adult emotions and disappointing experiences that come into their lives that you have zero control over are honestly terrible to witness when. A parent's perspective, tell me it gets easier. And she had a flood of responses, of people saying, Oh, I'm with you, girl. I put the same way. And someone other people saying, Please don't say this. I need no, I can't cope because this is really hot. I've got to know that it's going to get easier. So I thought, Gosh, this is a really interesting thing to talk about. Yeah, so I suppose you're on the brink of being 18, which is this age group that she's talking about.
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Talk to because you're going to be leaving school next year. How do you feel about that?
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Um, I don't know. So many emotions. I'm really excited. I'm so excited, good. I think it's going to be an amazing time of my life. Yeah, and I think I'm ready for the next chapter. But at the same time, like school, school I've ever known, yes, I was thinking about this last night because I read a it's in this book. I read a section, and it was talking about, you know, like, one of them returning home and getting, like, free food on the like, on the table. And I was just thinking, like, these are things that we take for granted as kids. Like we, you know, we just have home cooked meals, like we have a, you know, a fresh made bed, or whatever, you know, like, it's so comforting. But I'm not going to have that, you know, like I'm going to be fending for myself. If you come home,
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that's going to be my my bribe.
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Well, thank you. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot to think about. But yeah, and I was actually talking to someone earlier, and she said that her her son, when he, like, was going through the same thing when he was ready to leave school, he said it, you know, it was like standing on an abyss, because you've, just, as I said, You've been in this kind of whole bubble your entire life, and school's all you've ever known, and then you've got the rest of your life, Like this expanse, just kind of, you know, before you
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and it's quite daunting, yes, and it's, it's, it's not, it's not the same as a blank canvas, because the way that schooling systems are set up and the grading and all those sorts of things does mean that it's, it's not the same as a blank canvas, like you will have doors closed and You will have doors opened as a result of what happened at school. But I'm a perfect example of how that is not the be all and end
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all. Rejection is redirection.
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You're so funny. Is that what you say in your head? So, so it's, I think the tricky thing about it is we suddenly are much more in control of what happens next any of you. So here's my question.
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Do you think you have an internal or external locus of control? Do you know what I'm talking about? I have no idea.
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So I mentioned this before. So a locus of control is when you think, and they're extremes, right? When you think, where you think power comes from. So someone who has, I think I've got an extreme internal locus of control, which I don't think is a necessarily a good thing. So people with a strong internal locus of control think they are in charge of what opens to them in their life. That's me, to the extent that they don't necessarily get support and help from other people, because they're like, No, I can do this myself. And and an external locus of control is someone who believes things happen for a reason, and it's and it's and they have no control over it, that literally, fate is, fate is decided before they move out of home or whatever happens to them. It's the it's the gods, it's
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so I, I would say, I'm very much the first I would say, I, I believe that everything is in my control. Well, no, no, no, not everything is in my control.
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And I acknowledge that obviously, like they're they're outward, no, not outward. There are external circumstances that you just cannot control. And I acknowledge that, and I accept that, but I believe that that everything that I can control, I will control to my advantage, which has helped me take advantage of I like to, if something happens and has happened in the past, then I will look back on it and go, Okay, so, like, here's how I benefited from that not working out for me, right? So, so I don't believe that everything happens for reason. It's nice to say that I but I don't think I believe it, but I can post rationalize, yes, and I think it's healthy, to an extent, to post rationalize, because you can't change the past, no, but it's healthy to look back and go, Okay, well, if that hadn't ever happened, then I won't be where I am now. Yes, absolutely, and yeah, but looking forwards, I think definitely my look. Of control, you know, is internal,
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yeah, and I think I have a very strong internal locus of control. I think her father has a very strong internal locus of control. And I think that I don't know whether it's innate.
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I just don't know. My sister didn't and I again, I don't know why I found it very frustrating.
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And I think the reason I'm talking about this is because I think it has a very strong bearing on how we deal with that next stage. Oh, my god, yeah.
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And I think that I've spoken to a young man before who said he he really got depressed and struggled with this next stage because he felt that his parents, who he adores and loves, and his school, he just said they didn't prepare him.
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And I think we I think what he meant by that was that he just didn't know how to design his own life and how to have had that sense that he was in charge. Or do you look like you were about to say something?
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No, I just, I think, mean, obviously, that's really sad, but I think that's also why so many people kind of go a bit crazy, yeah, when they first leave home, yes, they just don't know, like, wow, yeah, I can do what I want. Suddenly, yeah, and, and I did that so and I think school doesn't prepare you at all. Doesn't prepare you at all, because you have everything, all decisions made for you,
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you know, yeah, which is more extreme now, I think, than it was when I was younger. I think we had more latitude, and I think teachers had more latitude, and I think the schooling, you know, everything had more latitude, yeah, and no, but I made that mistake. I got to university, I'd been given a grant because we didn't have money, and I got so excited. I was surrounded by rich people. I wasn't I had no money. I just had this grant, and I spent it because I was so excited. And then I got back after working all summer, and looked at how much money I had when my grant crane through, and it paid off my debts. So I had to live the next year off in pea soup, eating pea soup and get myself some work. And that was fine. It was
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fine, but, but, like, that is a learning curve. It's a learning right? So, so even if you know things like go off the rails a bit, you have to just, you know, yes, acknowledge that is it's gonna be and I learned so and it's gonna be tough. 100% is gonna be so hard, yeah, but, but you, as you say, you like you've you came out the other end, and you, and you definitely didn't, never made that mistake again. Did
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not make that mistake, I know, and always and but what's what's interesting is I want to come back to the wording that this woman used.
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She wrote the adult emotions.
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And I'm going to say disappointing experiences.
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That's the first phrase I'm interested in. And the second one is they come into their lives. You have zero control over. And those two things to me say everything about the mindset of this poor lady is this sense that she's she's really upset about the disappointing experiences. We're all going to have disappointing experiences.
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It is inevitable, no question some and I just want to say I am coming from a position of privilege. I have never been super ill in, you know, and I and people who become very ill in whatever way, that's a very difficult thing to navigate.
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I've never had someone die on me when I was young. You know, there are things that are catastrophic, which are horrific experiences, which we can't be prepared for, and you can't on you can't downplay how, what a big impact those things, and you can't conceptualize all things.
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So I am privileged, but the whole disappointing experiences and parents worrying about the disappointing experiences instead, I feel like we need to embrace them and say, You're going to have disappointing experiences. We can make something of them. And the other one is the zero control, yeah, this sense that we should have some control when we don't. You, just as a parent, you don't, my parents didn't think they haven't had any control, and they didn't, and they didn't control either. But, you know, and it would have been nice if they had had some support from them, yeah, but would I have learned the things I learned?
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Yeah, if they'd stepped in and go, Oh, don't worry, darling.
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We'll, we'll, we'll fix that bill. Oh, you spent all your money. Oh, we'll pay it all off.
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No, exactly. That's not necessarily helping them. No,
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absolutely not. So
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I guess the question is, how can we help our kids with that locus of control?
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Because Would you say that's helping you to feel excited about the world? Well, you're nearly 18, you're looking out of the world and saying, I'm excited, yeah. And is it because you feel like you have some power over what happens next?
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And you feel, do you feel like you have a plan? Do you need a policy?
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That's the interesting thing, which is that when I was younger, I was obsessed with my my life plan. Yeah, I knew exactly what I wanted to do, yeah, surgeon. Yeah. I wanted to be a surgeon. You know, I was going to be successful. And then you discovered that people satis, and then I and then I did dissection in third thought, Well, yeah, in year nine, and absolutely hated it. And then also witnessed some boy hacking bits off rats, and decided that wasn't for me. And also, then after doing that, I learned that you actually have to practice on cadavers. And I was like, okay, that's not happening, nah. So, I mean, that was the first step to my life plan, being ruined, destroyed. And it was, I remember calling you up and being absolutely I felt, I felt, I mean, I was in year nine, yes, and I felt directionless. I don't know what to do with my life. Now, if I'm not going to be a surgeon, what am I going to be? Whoever? Genuinely, genuinely, I was so upset, but I kind of, I just embraced it, and I was like, Well, I'm gonna, it's gonna work its way out, like I'm going to, you know, find something that's that I'm passionate about. And I did, you know, and, and also I initially, then I went, I thought I was going to do economics or something, and then I landed with my current subjects. Was so far from that, but, but, yeah, sorry, that was a bit of
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a time. No, no, it's great. It's kind of trust the process, yeah, exactly.
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Trust that you'll, you, you, you can work this time. And
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that's, that's a that's a bit of, like, that's an element of what I'm excited for, kind of not knowing, yeah, and I'm just excited, like, discovering things that's like, I don't, I can't anticipate what I'm going to experience in the next few years. And I'm so fine with that, and I'm excited for that, because I'm going to have so many experiences that I can't even think of right now. And it's, it's so exciting, yeah,
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and I think what's interesting to me is that I've seen a slow change in both you and your sister in terms of your ability to coach yourself.
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And you know this, this sense of control and ability to navigate life, I think, comes from your ability to reach out to somebody else and have them help you, but essentially, you want to learn the skills so you can do it yourself. Yeah, and what I found extraordinary was the other day, I got a message from your sister saying, oh, I need some advice.
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Oh, no, no. She said she had this problem. And I said, okay, and I didn't know, I know now that the answer is, you don't, you just acknowledge the problem and you say, Gosh, that must hard. That sounds hard, because then the emotion has gone somewhere. They feel seen. And then she said, I need some advice. And I thought, Whoa, hang on a second. What? When did you ever ask, explicitly asking for advice? And I thought, Oh, that's interesting. And again, I knew what the problem was, and rather than jump in with advice, I repeated. And I said, what about this problem? And then she began to coach herself, yeah, the same words I would normally use, if not better, I was blown away, because I thought, here's a child who is no longer a child who is someone who, when they have a problem, they've come to me for a backup, but actually what they're able to do now is navigate things for themselves, and that has come from being A Not, not panicking when they had these horrible, horrible things going on. I so agree.
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And also like, this is such a I mean, I've seen so many things recently about this, but it translates to everything. But just when someone has a problem, so many of us try to problem solve. Like we jump. We were like, well, we want to intervene. We want to help them, especially if it's someone Yes, but just not even always asking, but like, sometimes just asking, like, do you want, do you want me to help you problem solve, or do you just want someone to vent to you? That can be so powerful, because often they don't want you to try to solve their problems, because also, a lot of the time. I mean, like, we've had some of this recently where, like, you'll try to come up with things for me to do, and I'm, like, what I know that's what I need to do. Like, that's what I'm already doing. I'm trying to do that, and it's not working.
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Or, like, I acknowledge that's something I should do, but I don't want to do that. I just want someone to to
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hear me. Yes, I want to be what my emotional side needs to be seen, right?
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And so it's
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just, it's literally just about holding space for someone and and and acknowledging that they'll probably feel better after venting to you. And so also, you need to let go as well, like, don't, don't churn, don't, you know, have because we fixate on things. We try to problem solve.
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Our minds gravitate towards that. And as a parent, obviously it can be quite distressing hearing that your child is going through something, and so just being able to hold the space and not, I mean, we were talking about this earlier, not kind of to send into the same depths as them, and then, you know, just both be stuck there. Yeah,
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that was the that was the thing you're talking about empathy. And I mentioned this with Susie recently, where I said there are these different two types of empathy. And she was a bit confused by what I was trying to get at. But it is that what I'd read was that you get this empathy where you sit in the hole with them crying too, right? Because you're feeling it too, and you've taken on all the emotion, or the one where you sit in the hole and you rub their back and but you are divorced enough where you're not getting sucked into it, which means you can actually lift them up. You can give them support.
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And I think quite it's really easy to fall into the first type, because we were so enmeshed with our children, because we've been with them since they were born, and we care so much about them, and I've learned that I need to be that person who isn't completely sucked into it and doesn't get angry and upset as well. It's very hard to do. Yeah, it's very hard to do. And you know when you talk about, I remember your sister coming home to me once, saying, Mommy, it's really awful, because now, when I was little, if I had a falling out, I you could just arrange a play date together, and it was fun.
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And now you can't do that. And I said, No, I can't. I can give you suggestions, and we can talk you through, but I can't picture problems. And that was a big step of being a teenager. And you know, I think the 18 to 22 year old bracket is the leaving school, getting a job, having relationships, having letdowns.
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You know, education did you get into where you want to go? Yeah, and you've had your first heartbreak. And we won't go into it in detail, because it's, it's not, it wouldn't be fair. But the question, you know, so let's just take that as one example of how a parent can cope with this situation. So What? What? How do you think as a parent, when you've got a kid who's going through something tragic, whether they they didn't get the job that they thought they were going to get, they didn't get into the university they thought they were going to get what, you know, or they've had this massive heartbreak, what? What should parents be doing?
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I think literally, as I already said, like holding space, because a lot of the time, I mean, it's obviously so dependent on your child, you have to be able to flex that. So you can't just, you know, take advice and think that it's going to work for every single scenario, because everyone's different, but I think being there to validate their feelings and, yeah, just acknowledging what it is that they're going through, and also, like, I Know with me, I like, I'm quite good at getting on with things and, like, bottling things up and, and just kind of, like detaching. And so I think something that you've been really good at is, is being able to, like, unpick that and, and, and just go, you know, oh, like, let, like, let's talk about this. And, you know, is this, what is this? What you're feeling, and is this the thing that's causing that? And is it this specific thing? And then sometimes I realized that actually something was really upsetting me that I hadn't even thought about, or that I didn't realize, and it's just kind of helped, like, literally just holding space, just like allowing them to talk about it and engaging with them in that thing. And yeah, it's just so helpful. I think that that's why I like journaling as well, is that it's just being able to unpick what's going on, and so being able to just doesn't get stuck a circuit in your head. So having a parental figure serve that role, and it just kind of speeds up the process, because you've got someone else like responding to you and helping you unpick that, and you're kind of working through it together.
00:28:51.819 --> 00:28:55.240
I think that's what you did really, yeah,
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and I think what I have read is The steps are not that I just do this for me later, but the steps are seeing, seeing the pain, or seeing, seeing whatever it is, and acknowledging, because it needs to be acknowledged. You need to say, Yeah, I can see that that's really hard, and that's and then helping them unpick, stand back, yeah, whatever they've experienced 100% because
00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:38.660
also, I mean, you see this in young children, where they'll hurt themselves, yes, and then they won't react. And then the second you go, oh no, oh, did you hurt yourself? Then they start crying, yes. And it's just because, like having someone else acknowledge that you've had like that something's happened, it can be so powerful.
00:29:33.740 --> 00:29:38.660
And just like feeling seen, yes,
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and then you can just let it out. And then it's not, it's not scarring, and being able to unpick it. And so helping them sort of go through the process of saying, so this has happened, and this has happened. What do you think happened there? And why did this happen? And then what you the other thing that can be really helpful is reframing it so you're saying you're seeing it this way. Could it be seen in a different way? You know? Could this be, you know, you think this is true? Is there a different way of, a different truth that could be existed there in curiosity? I so agree.
00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:40.480
And actually, yeah, because also, when it's so easy to spiral, it's so easy to get stuck in that, you know, kind of just churning, churning going over and over and over, and not really, kind of taking a step back and looking at it in perspective. And so having someone else who is able to see what you're going through, but from a from an outsider's perspective, and as you say, being able to reframe that and going, Well, have you considered it like this? It kind of just helps you zoom out a bit and think, Well, you know, if we actually take this in its entirety, it's not, it's not all that bad,
00:30:40.599 --> 00:31:36.559
you know, absolutely so, so remaining curious. And I just wonder when it comes to the sorts of parents who so the whole emptiness syndrome. I don't know how much you know about it, but it's this, this sense that when kids go move on, the parents they just lose they've spent years in the same way you spent all those years in school. The parents have spent all these years with children at home, having a role, and then suddenly, and it can feel very sudden if they haven't been anticipated and slowly working towards something, a different role in life, it can feel incredibly painful and very you know, they could be grief stricken. And I think one of the things is preparing for that, so being aware that that is something that's going to be coming up, and rather than trying to cling on, trying to find other roles. But you know, people who where their parents haven't been able to where they've been quite clingy. What kind of impact does that have?
00:31:36.619 --> 00:32:10.500
It just, it just drives them away. It just pushes them away. And initially, you know, it can feel so nice having, I mean, like, you text me and you're like, Oh, I miss you, you know, like, I can't wait to see you. No, no, no. I mean, it's not all the time, but things like that, that's really heartwarming. And I see that I think, oh, you know, this is so lovely, and I can't wait to go home, and things like that. But when it when it becomes incessant and it becomes obvious that they parents you, yeah, a parent who's emotionally dependent on you, it's not fair on the child. It's really not fair on the child. And they feel responsible for your well being.
00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:14.519
They feel guilty for leaving.
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Yeah, they feel they feel this responsibility for for your welfare. And that's not how it should be. They should be. You should be able to detach and allow them to enjoy this new life that they're creating for themselves without having you in the back of their mind. You know, like worrying about how you're doing, and
00:32:30.619 --> 00:33:21.799
it's a very interesting perspective. And I'm just going to dwell on this for a second, because I know that there are other parts in the world where they don't see identity in the same way, and I think we have a very western view of it. And I'd be fascinated if any listeners want to email in about this or reflect on it, because from what I understand, there are many parts of the world where if you say to somebody, who are you, they will say, I'm the son of, or I'm the daughter of and I'm from this family, and I'm from this village, not I'm a surgeon, or I'm a, you know, teacher, or we, we front foot what our role is. And they front foot, where, what community they are from.
00:33:16.380 --> 00:33:38.599
And somehow, it would be nice if it was a bit more in the middle, right? Because I think we pushed, and I think we push this, this very strong individual identity, and everyone's like, you know, live and let live. Let them be whatever they want. And I think actually we benefit more from community. We benefit from that, definitely,
00:33:39.858 --> 00:33:50.618
and being connected to, to where, you know, whether it's your like, village or your family, just, you know, something feeling grounded, I think, yeah, that's, that's what that serves. That's the purpose that serves,
00:33:50.619 --> 00:34:00.359
yes, and I think that's the reason I'm mentioning this, is because I think the danger of the 18 to 22 zone is when they leave school.
00:33:56.619 --> 00:34:49.119
Yeah. And I've seen this with you know, parents who've contacted me saying they've got a son, particularly, who's now in his room playing video games all summer, his mates have moved on, or they're doing X, Y, Z, and he's stuck. He's not motivated. And I think we are often buoyed along. We sort of carried along by our community and about, you know, there is a sort of rhythm to how we move, and if we don't move with a mass then we suddenly have to make decisions on our own, and that can be very, very difficult. And for the parent who's got a child who's in that situation can be terribly stressful and very upsetting. And I think that that's where reaching out into community and finding them a place in the community, and different ways in which they can see their role in the world can be very, very helpful. I mean, I don't know if you have any thoughts about that, but
00:34:49.298 --> 00:35:02.278
no, no, no, I I really agree. I also think 18 to 22 and even, you know, later years as well can be quite a confusing time, because you're you're no.
00:34:57.458 --> 00:35:39.858
Longer all on the same foot? No, it's true. Yes. So you know, you've got people going to university and doing really long degrees and then potentially doing Masters after that. And then you've also got people who haven't gone to university, they've concentrated to the world of work. There are people getting married at like 1920 having kids like you, suddenly all branch off in different directions. And it's, it's, it's really difficult, because you feel a lot less kind of on par with all your your peers. You've got, like, everyone going off in different directions. And so it's, you know, I think it can be such a great point, the people who were part of your community at school have all just like, gone, yeah, separate ways.
00:35:39.860 --> 00:36:10.139
And so you're having to rebuild a brand new and we've seen that with your older sisters, where they've they have had to really rework their friendships. One of them's kept a lot of her group together. They've sort of built the group, but they are dispersed, yeah, and then they come back together, and then they disperse, whereas the other one, she's sort of branched out and following her own path. But I think that that in itself can, can really be challenging. Yeah, and the people who you know, and she's got friends who've got married and they've got children
00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:15.539
or as well, and you're like, Oh, well, you know what defines success? Because, yeah, you know, yeah, I
00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:52.960
love that. It's a really important point. And I think for the ones you know, I know, I've got friends who've got a son who hasn't found hasn't gone on to further education, hasn't found a job he wants to continue with that's a very, very difficult stage of life to be in, and supporting a child in that stage of life can be very challenging, and that's why there's the ken Rabo interview I did, where he talked about failure to launch and making sure that you create structure around their life and and give them ways in which they can be part of a community.
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Really Matters. Purpose. Oh, purpose. That was some kind of brand. Anyway. I think that's that's pretty much it, isn't it?
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:29.900
Yeah. If you found this useful, that's yeah, be nice to hear from you. Let me know if you have any viewpoints on this, or top tips. If you did enjoy it, can you pass it on to someone else that you know? That would be really great. And if they're things you'd like to talk about, message me on teenagers untangled@gmail.com We'd love a review. You can read more on the website at www teenagersuntangled com, and that's it. Goodbye.
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Now over and out. You.
