Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hello, I'm Rachel Richards and welcome to Teenagers Untangled, the audio hug, where we use research by experts and our own experience to discuss everything and anything to do with parenting teenagers.
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Hi there, my name is Susie Asley.
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I'm a mindfulness coach, mindful therapist and musician, and mother of three teenagers two of them are twins.
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As a parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters, I've seen the transformative power of getting people together to share ideas and support each other.
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So here we are.
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Welcome to our club.
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Let's begin Right, quick one.
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Susie, do you know how many downloads we've had?
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No, okay, so this isn't listens, because the majority of people actually stream the show without downloading it over 60,000.
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What, wow, that's crazy.
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I know it's amazing.
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Wow, and that's in 129 different countries, most of which I probably have never been to.
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Yeah, I was going to say can I name 129 countries?
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I'm really happy in it.
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I'd love to meet you all.
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Amazing, yes, how incredible.
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So it just goes to show that the things that we're talking about and struggling with are worldwide problems.
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You're not alone and all of us parents go into these things and think, okay, how am.
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I supposed to do this, right?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Now, susie, we've been contacted by a lovely lady who would like to remain anonymous.
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Her problem is one that gets a huge amount of judgement from other parents but genuinely needs support.
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She says her son seems to have fallen in with a group that are all taking a lot of risks like stealing from shops and verbally abusing others.
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The police have been involved, the school has cancelled some privileges and his parents have even taken him to apologise in person and pay for damages after he broke a car window by throwing a stone.
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She says it's like no amount of talking.
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Sanctions, of threats of police appear to be resonating with him.
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There's almost a feeling of him not caring and there's a definite need to fit in with this group and be seen as cool.
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Yeah and Gosh.
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That must be stressful, but I think it is.
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I think it's very stressful for any parent for all sorts of reasons.
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So I'm going to talk you through the excellent international research into teenage delinquency.
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I hate to use the word, but that is kind of what this is and what the experts know about it.
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So I think the one thing we know that definitely reduces it and also top tips for how to manage it as a parent.
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So, but first let's talk about our nuggets.
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Go on, suzy.
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What have you got?
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for us this week.
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Okay, I'll shoot first, so it's half-term here.
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We have lots of people in the house, which is really lovely, and there was a minor incident last night that I didn't feel comfortable with, and it was the idea that how do you manage that when it happens in the moment?
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and you're not prepared.
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Yes, very often we're not.
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Yeah, and I don't need to go into the details of what it was, but it's the idea that we think we've thought things in advance and we have, but then something happens.
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How do you deal with it?
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And I believe, when there are other teenagers around, unless it's dangerous or really need stopping, then it's better to wait.
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So I dealt with the situation and it dissolved.
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And then it's the idea of me going away and before I speak to my kids later, what do I really think about it?
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How can I be as clear as possible in a grounded way, so I'm not shooting from the hip or being reactive, so I really know what my boundaries are and give them clear guidance.
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That's non-negotiable, but here what they have to say and they're welcome to have an input.
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So it's kind of how do you deal with it in the moment and then go away and reflect upon it so that you can manage it properly, so it feels resolved with flexibility that we can really do it again.
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I think that's so great, because, as a parent, we need to remove our own emotional reactions and give ourselves time to it, because quite often we come up against problems and just haven't thought about it before, and actually being able to then say to them so you tell me why you think that, what happened there?
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How is this working?
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So you have more information?
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But at the start of that conversation, you already have some clear ideas about where your values lie and how you feel about it.
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Yeah, so I felt.
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I couldn't address it this morning.
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A because there were still lots of teenagers around and I don't think that's a very good idea.
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They can certainly hear it and B because I wasn't really that clear on what I think and I'm still not 100%.
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So I'm going to go home and have a think about it and here, when we talk about it, I will first of all hear the facts, what actually happened from both, from all anyone, without judgement, and then this is what I think about it, what do?
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you think, and then it'll be really clear.
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Yes, yes, and we need to teach our kids that you don't have to have a response immediately.
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No, and actually to wait and do it when you're calm and you've got your rational head on, yeah, exactly, much better.
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So for me.
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My daughter said something that I thought was really profound the other day.
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She said she would never consider stopping her revision or her other work to watch an episode of her favourite show because, these are sort of 30-45 minutes and she'd said that I'd be committing that much time, and yet she'd happily flick over to Instagram.
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Or she's not really a Tik Toker, but you know she's these social media things Snapchat and just kind of dip in and then find out 45 minutes later that's where she's been and she said you might as well as well.
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I've watched the show and I think yes, and I thought, gosh, that's so profound where she said that because that?
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because I think what we need to do is we need to make ourselves think.
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Before pause, before we actually turn to something think how much time am I genuinely going to commit and is that actually going to happen?
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You know, am I prepared to say that this might end up being half an hour?
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and be really careful with the social media one, because that is the whole problem, isn't it?
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I mean, yes, hit the nail on the head, it's you know.
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There is nothing wrong with going on social media in my opinion.
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But it's getting stuck in it.
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Yes, the problem, and that is what it's designed to do.
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So you go in thinking.
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Nobody goes and thinking I'm going to spend three hours on it.
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You go in thinking I'm just going to check, I'll be five minutes and then, like she experiences.
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And I love that she's aware of that.
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Yeah, brilliant, amazing.
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Now back to our anonymous guest who contacted us via social media, said there's one of the benefits.
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It's widely agreed among experts that the greatest threats to the well-being of young people in industrialized societies come from preventable and often self inflicted causes Like car and other accidents account for nearly half of all fatalities amongst American youth.
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Yes, violence, drug alcohol use, sexual risk taking, you name it.
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So what do we know?
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There are studies that have sort of pinpointed what's going on.
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We do know for sure, because we now have Accurate information about what's happening to the teenage brain.
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In the teenage years we talk about it all the time the prefrontal cortex isn't developed and they call it dopamagenic responses.
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Your reward system is having a massive change and that's why the risk taking happens, because there's a lot of remodeling of this brains reward system.
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Testosterone that plays a fun role Increases significantly and it can fuel a boy's appetite for unhealthy risk taking.
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But it's not just boys who take risks no clear, they are crazy.
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And then this pressure and teens have a really strong need to be accepted in a phone.
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And this is one of the things that really feeds into girls as well, and research has found that peer pressure activates the reward receptors in the brain like a drug.
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Yeah, and like we've mentioned lots of times before, you know it's the people they surround themselves with that have the biggest influence is no longer absolutely.
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And there's a great study that showed how, when boys were given a simulated driving game, they found that it was only there was a.
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You know the adolescent years when they would take more risks if they were being watched by their peers.
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This, this, this completely changed in the adult years.
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Yeah right, interesting.
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I'm sure there must be some who would yeah, because we've seen those.
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Yeah, all those people.
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The brains can show that having peers watching amplifies the activity in your in incentive processing system.
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Yeah, I can totally believe that.
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And particularly the boys who had the girlfriend sitting next to them, were much calmer, took fewer risks.
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If the girlfriend wasn't in the room, they would still take the risks if an attractive girl came in the room.
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Oh yes, they take the risk.
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I have seen all of those.
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It's amazing it's so interesting.
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You know, we can kind of relate to this, yeah, and I, like I said, I don't think it's just boys, so no, it is.
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And actually we know that human beings, when they are in a group, will make far worse decisions, right?
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So we even know that this is that this is an international human thing.
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Yes, yes.
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Much more pronounced yes exactly so.
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There's an excellent academic paper on this in science direct.
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In fact, there were two and I'm going to reference both, cause one was came out in two thousand a date and one came out rather later.
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So scary stuff.
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We know that there's risk takers.
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Now quick fuck with Okay, using the data cited in this article that I read yeah, in the, this is the second article read in the developed world, has teen smoking increased, stay the same or reduce between the late nineties and twenty fifteen Teen smoking.
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Well, I'd say decreased, but now you're asking me the question.
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I'm now unsure, okay?
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what about the prevalence of binge drinking?
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I'm not sure.
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Increased juvenile offending.
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Increased teenage pregnancies decreased, so I was really interesting.
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So throughout much of the developed world, adolescent smoking, drinking under age six and juvenile crime declined dramatically okay, between the late nineties and around twenty fifteen.
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Wow okay, all the way all feel fear that yes, wow, and this is in, this is in.
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This is the funny thing because I read the first piece of research that was done by this, this, this, I think, lawrence Steinberg who's?
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the guy in as a lesson understanding research.
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Okay, the first piece of research said all these governments are spending lots and lots of money on programs to teach adolescents how not to how, how to protect themselves, and that they shouldn't behave in these certain ways.
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None of it's working.
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All right, that was what you said.
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And then this later study, which is a meta analysis, is a study of lots of studies Show this shows the opposite.
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And it's not that it's not he wasn't right, it's that it's changed.
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Okay, so in Europe, based on a thirty country average, daily smoking in fifteen to sixteen year olds declined from a peak of twenty six percent in ninety nine to ten percent in twenty nineteen.
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Yeah, that's kind of especially strong in Nordic countries.
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Prevalence of heavy episodic drinking declined markedly, from two thousand in the US, followed by Australia, new Zealand, netherlands.
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Declines range from around forty percent in the Netherlands To about fifty five percent in England on Australia and sixty five percent in the USA.
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Okay right Rates of juvenile offending declined by between forty and eighty percent from recent peaks in the USA.
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New.
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Zealand, australia, the Netherlands and England.
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That's incredible.
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It's particularly steeped crease since about two thousand and eight Rates of teen pregnancy.
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Yeah, they're, they're dramatic.
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E-segarette years Up.
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That's that's a complete trend right that one is math.
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that's rise risen sharply since around twenty sixteen.
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So we know that's the the biggest you.
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But I want to put some good news in here.
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This is all reduced, yeah.
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Why, they don't really know.
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So I started looking at these figures and it's really interesting because even the experts aren't entirely sure.
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What they do know is that unstructured time with friends is strongly associated with substance use and delinquency.
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So, for example, nearly 80% of US 10th graders, 15 to 16 year olds reported going to parties at least once a month during the 90s, but by 2017, this had forwarded to about 57%, so quite a significant decline.
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It's a bit sad, really, isn't it?
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But this is true, right?
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Declines in face-to-face socialising have been empirically linked to declines in adolescent risk behaviour in both North America and Europe.
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So it's unstructured time.
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Yeah, where you have your mates and they go oh, let's go do that.
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Yes, and a study by Borodowski and all in 2021 concluded that declines in unstructured in-person socialising accounted for about 86% of declines in risk behaviour.
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Wow.
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So they're not having that time because they're on screens, they're doing other things, life has changed, so yeah.
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So first of all, coming back to this lady straight away really it's unstructured time with other kids is just a fertile ground for misbehavior and this group and depending on the people in the group, exactly, exactly.
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So a paper I read pointed out that we expect heavy internet users to be less engaged in risk behaviours than peers with more time on their hands.
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Yeah, that would make sense.
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The opposite is true, okay.
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Heavy internet users, particularly social media users, are more likely to smoke and drink than those who rarely use the internet.
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Okay, so it's really confusing, isn't it?
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Yeah, it's really confusing, right?
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So this is the problem.
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A lot of studies, are trying to pinpoint what's going on.
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One study investigated whether a rise in computer gaming was empirically linked to declining adolescent binge drinking in six Nordic countries.
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No association, no, okay, right.
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So we sort of instinctively think oh, we know what it is and we don't, no, right.
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Which is so interesting?
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Another avenue that they addressed was so this is Dotty Sand and Trees pointed out that parents are spending more time with their children.
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Okay, yeah, I've got all this research in the podcast notes.
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But they pointed out there's a decreasing use of corporal punishment and lots more parental monitoring over the past 20 years.
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That's interesting.
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So they say maybe this is it yeah that's interesting.
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That's really interesting.
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The demographic profile of parents has changed markedly.
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Parents are older, better educated.
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Fathers are typically more involved with parenting in many countries.
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And our emotional intelligence has increased massively.
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The proportion of adolescents reporting they feel emotionally close to both parents has increased.
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Yeah.
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That would make a lot of sense if that's the reason, or at least part of the reason.
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Yeah, but before we become all smart, increased family connectedness was not found to be the significant factor in risk behavior.
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Decline in New.
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Zealand and Australian studies.
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Darn it, darn it.
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A study of 30 European countries concluded that changes in parental control and support were not associated with declining adolescent drinking within or between countries.
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How?
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are they doing this research?
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I know, I think they're wrong.
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I think they're wrong, yeah.
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So there's, another option.
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It's interesting isn't it?
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Many of the things that mark the transition to adulthood, like gaining a driver's license, getting a job, leaving home, getting married, are happening later in life.
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Adolescents are growing up slower and they propose that because of this, they're less exposed to having access to things they could do that would get them into trouble, like you're not, you're drinking later, you're having sex later.
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Yeah.
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And your brain is a bit more developed by the time you get around to it and that the symbolic meaning of adulthood may have changed.
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So now it represents to young people a loss of security and the end of all the fun, right?
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So they're looking at how the job market's insecure and how the world's on fire and you know, I think I might just stay an adolescent for longer.
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And so they're in no hurry to grow up.
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We still don't know.
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Okay.
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Pressure to succeed, increased schooling, great engagement.
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So future orientation is associated with health promoting behavior, according to Whitehead, and all Qualitative research indicates.
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Some people see drinking in a party lifestyle is incompatible with their academic, sporting or career ambitions.
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Okay, there's evidence of increasing schoolwork pressure in European countries since 2009.
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In the US in 2019, a study showed that 15 to 17 year olds spent twice as much time on homework in 2019 than in their mid 1990s counterparts, which is, I would say, that's true because I didn't really do that much.
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So they're not doing risk taking behaviors, but they're already depressed and stressed and anxious Great.
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Just make your child want to kill themselves and they won't go and do all these things.
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It's not true.
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In fact, that's not true either.
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No, a recent study of 37 mainly European countries has demonstrated an empirical link between increasing schoolwork pressure and declining alcohol consumption.
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So what do we know?
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There are lots of reasons.
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Tune in in five years and we'll give you the answer.
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Yes.
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So the truth is look, I don't have an answer for why this has happened.
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This has happened, very interesting, and we do know.
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We do know that kids are spending far less time together.
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And here's the really interesting thing this lady who contacted us.
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She said to me that she has an only child and she had encouraged him to spend time with his friends in real life because she was happy that he wasn't on his own in his room doing the things that we know are not healthy and the online is not a safe environment as well.
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No, we know that it's really healthy for them to spend time together.
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I think the problem is the unstructured time and the group that you picked to hang out with.
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That's really like the most.
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The biggest influence in the teenager's life is the five people they surround themselves with.
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Exactly so, and we have done an episode I forget which number it is on.
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What do you do if you don't like your teen's friends and it's definitely not, you know bad mouth them and try and separate them from them.
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What we suggested was that you have the ability to shut down their access to them in unfettered situations where they don't have anybody apparent around.
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So one of the good things is to invite them around to your house and hope they don't destroy your house, but yeah, so that's one of the things that is a feasible option.
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I've always said to my girls my preference and I've mentioned this in our podcast before when they said what age can I do XYZ?
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And I've always said my preferences.
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You have as much freedom as possible.
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I want you to be out there doing things.
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But, I reserve the right at any moment in time, to withdraw privileges on the basis that I think you're not ready and I've overstepped your freedom and I will blame myself.
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So I will say I'm very, very sorry for letting you have too much time.
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I thought you were ready and you're not, and then I pull them back in again.
