Transcript
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Hello, I'm Rachel Richards former BBC correspondent parenting coach a mother of two teenagers and two older stepdaughters.
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Hi, I'm Suzy as the mindfulness instructor and mother of three teenagers, two of them being twins.
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Now before we begin, I just wanted to welcome all of our new listeners. Suze, you know, we are now being downloaded in 65 different countries, right? So no, no, and a big hello to the large proportion of new parents who are in Dublin, Cape Town, and Sydney, New South Wales.
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Amazing. Welcome. Yes, welcome.
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Coming up, we are going to chat about activities we can do with our teens that everybody might enjoy. But first pornography.
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There's nothing new about it.
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It's existed throughout recorded history. I mean, hundreds of sexually explicit frescoes and sculptures were found in the ruins of Pompeii. But since the advent of the Internet, porn availability and use has skyrocketed now a few figures in 2019, the world's largest pornographic website, Pornhub, which is a kind of YouTube for porn boasted of an almost unbelievable 42 billion individual visitors averaging more than 115 million visits per day. Wow, that's a huge number.
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It's just mind blowing. Yeah.
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And that's just one of the free websites amongst 1000s that host this material. Surveys of adults in the United States have found that 46% of men and 16% of women viewed online pornography in the past week, surveys of us adolescents found that 68.4% report exposure to online pornography now, this, I didn't see a number and age for them.
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So, you know, now we hand our kids phones and computers, and they connect to the internet, some of them as young as eight or whatever age and we diligently set up careful barriers to access. But let's be honest, they will soon work out how to get around them. Or, you know, your team might be introduced to things you don't like by other teams forwarding material or gaining access because their parents aren't as careful. So you can't you can't stop it. That makes it all out there. So what's the impact? Now according to Peggy Orenstein, in boys and sex, the boys she interviewed access porn regularly and found in real life she calls it IRL sex, which I took me took a while to understand is in real life, sex, hard to reconcile with those of the online porn they're reviewing. Yeah. In any US survey, boys were found to be three times more likely than their fathers do have watched hardcore, featuring triggering themes like BDSM, gang rape, and double penetration. The boys then ended up worrying about the size of their penises, and about whether they'd be able to perform the acts that they saw online. And then when they try the acts that they'd seen online on a partner, they were often filled with shame and regret, because they didn't actually work out the way they thought they were going to. Because the problem is, of course, these people are acting.
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Yes. It's a Yeah, because as you say, you know, pornography has been around since time began, but it's in such a different format. Now that it's, it's a totally different world. And we're looking at a picture, which is is, is one thing, and then seeing something graphic is another.
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And I think I think I think when they're young, and they don't have any context, but this is their first experience, because one of the things that Peggy Orenstein pointed out was that, you know, most boys will be accessing pornography, because they seek it out. Because it doesn't matter who you are, boy, girl, if you hear a word and you think, Oh, what's that? And then you type it into a search engine, which actually happened to one of my children. You know, this is completely innocent, because they just didn't know what it meant. And yet, suddenly, you're confronted with things that you really are not ready for. And I think it's
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really important to differentiate between normal, normal curiosity which every child and adults has, you know, its sexuality is exciting, it's exciting to explore it, what is it? What's going on? How do we do it? Looking at different bodies is exciting. That's totally normal. And, and, and fun. Yeah. And at the other end, is then being confronted by you know, hardcore porn, which can be violent, you know, toxic, have so much, you know, strangeness to it. That is that's, that's not normal and differentiating between the two.
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We don't want to stop the curiosity and the fun part. We want to protect and take care of the stuff that maybe is toxic and damaging them.
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Absolutely. So the problem we've got is we've got access to material and how what do we do about it? You know, just in terms of some of the other things to unpack what's worse is that some of the boys that were accessing this pornography, were struggling to get excited by their real life partners, because what they've done is they've been searching for through the search engines, you can refine your searches for this very specific things about bodies that you find attractive.
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And then the person you happen to be with doesn't have that thing. Yeah. And then it's not attractive. So and because it rewires your whole feedback mechanism in your brain. Yeah.
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Also, Peggy Orenstein said that in terms of consent, well, all the boys she interviewed understood the need for consent, many admitted to watching porn where the female actor resisted or was coerced. Before coming in pleasure. I'm actually for the goals that I've spoken to. And I've got stepdaughters who are in their 20s. Now, so we feel more comfortable talking about sexuality and porn, and it can be really off putting, because they don't want this stuff done to them. No, it becomes a kind of, I'm gonna have to protect myself from some disgusting thing that these boys might experiment on me. And that's not what we want. We want our teenagers to take great joy in giving pleasure to somebody else. And it doesn't have to be penetration.
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No. And I think if we can have conversations with our children, however awkward it is about it, and, you know, emphasize that, that pornography that they watch isn't a normal relationship. It's a it's a show, it's a, it's a money making thing, and it's graphic.
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And it's often violence and not not a normal relationship. And a normal relationship. And a sexual relationship between two people is either, you know, fun based, or it's hopefully between them, you know, in the future between two people who really love and care for each other.
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And it's a really beautiful thing. It's not just a physical act. And I think the idea that, you know, sexuality is something that we have to be, you know, weird and funny about is so unhelpful. It's a beautiful thing.
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And I was talking to my girls recently, because there was a man that I'm on Twitter, I follow a lot of writers and he writes romance, which is unusual for a man and he someone said to him, why? And he said, Well, what's better than falling in love? Yeah. And I thought, gosh, you know, that's such an interesting point he's making and why are we not talking more often about love and how beautiful it is to love somebody, whether it's your friend or your partner, and you know, just celebrating love so much more. We don't talk enough about it. It just ends up being reduced into something sexual, which is so depressing. Yeah, something
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sexual and something that's, you know, we have to be really careful about, you know, sex education is about not getting pregnant. And, you know, what, how about, we talked about how beautiful it is? And how wonderful it is? And yes, of course, it's Be careful and, and do the things we need to do to take care of ourselves. But that be the starting point, be that the beautiful side of it and let sex be an organic part of something loving rather than an add on? Yes.
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And what interestingly, when I was doing this research, the thing, the one thing that really struck me was when I was thinking about nonbinary, adolescents, and how actually for them, this could be a wonderful outlet, because being able to explore your sexuality in a in an IT safe environment where you haven't got prying eyes, if your community checking you out, I can see that that would be a really positive thing. So it's not all negative. And being able to feel safe and comfortable doing that. Yeah, it's good. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it will remain safe, because of course, there are online predators. Yes. You know, so it does have to be couched in those terms. Yeah, no,
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I totally agree.
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It's, you know, curiosity, finding out normalizing it for people who are, you know, trans or, you know, different? Yes, because
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I read that one trans person was saying, the problem is when you're an adolescent, and you think we start thinking, Well, how does how does this work? I have a relationship with somebody, how does, how am I supposed to have sex because all they hear about is penetrative sex. And we need to sort of start talking about other ways of showing romantic and loving sexual, you know, giving someone pleasure that isn't just about what you're seeing in pornography. And I you know, how I love I love my science. So I did a little bit of digging around on the science side. And what I thought was interesting was a website which is called fight the new drug.org. And the reason I liked them was because you can see this information in other places, but they described it so beautifully. And it's you can share with your team. So teenage neuroplasticity in our brains, we talk about this all the time because it's the biggest neuro plastic time of your life.
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Adolescent. Yes. And with the our brains are brilliant because they will rewire and adapt to whatever we try and do that's positive. So deep inside that brain is the reward center and its job is to release the pleasure chemical called dopamine, which we've talked about a lot Yes, in our screen.
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Yes. Social media social media stuff because that's that they work on all those feedback, the positive feedback loops. So the dopamine comes out in response to behaviors that we perceive as positive so and the dopamine says, Hey, brain, let's do some more of this because it really feels good. So the brain rewires around that and and triggers you need to do more more of it.
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Okay, so it's very clever. But porn releases massive amounts of dopamine in the same way that a drug would release a massive amount of dopamine for people who are accessing it. And it's pleasurable, yes, exciting, yes.
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And it floods the brain with these feelings of pleasure. And so the brain starts rewiring up around it. And then it will then create an endless feedback loop if you're not careful, because you will then have to concede that out again. And at the same time that this is happening, the prefrontal cortex, which we've talked about before, which you know, a lot about, and what is it in a teenager?
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Well, it's just not really fully formed, particularly for the boys. I don't think it's fully formed until they're 25.
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Yeah, and so and so these are the people who are the biggest users send their prefrontal cortex, the job is to actually put the brakes on this dopamine feedback loop, you know, if because what it does is it looks and goes, Oh, actually, that's not good for me.
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Yeah. And so that's why teenagers take loads of silly risks, because it's not formed, particularly the boys, which in the context of looking at dangerous porn is not a good combination. Yes.
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And we'll come on to why there is dangerous porn. Because that's actually when we say dangerous porn, you know, sort of really graphic unpleasant things, what it can do is dis regulate that feedback system. So the reason this is important is it can actually cause problems with getting arousal with a partner. If they've had to access porn to get that hit, then when they're with somebody, they don't get it. They're not going to get any kind of happiness out of it. So that's, that's really sad.
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It is really sad as the same as any stimulant, isn't it? The more the more you use it, the more you need.
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Yes, absolutely. And studies show that changes in the transmission of dopamine can also facilitate depression and anxiety, which we know is such a massive problem.
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Now in our society, compulsive porn users find themselves wanting and needing more porn.
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And it doesn't always happen in the same way that everybody responds differently to things.
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So some people might try a cigarette, and they just say, No, I'm not interested. Some people start smoking, and they find it easy to give up. And some people are instantly hooked. So you will get people who respond differently.
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Yeah, and that can be chemically based content, but it can also be you know, any addiction is filling a need filling a hole. And if you have that particular way, then then watching those a porn might be really appealing. And maybe then it's really difficult to stop,
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if they're watching it, and they're finding it unpleasant, but they still feel the need to go back. That's a key example of dysregulation, where you're you now are in a feedback loop. That's unpleasant. Yeah, and not helpful. Pornhub analytics revealed that conventional sex is decreasingly interesting to users and is being replaced by themes like incest, and violence. Gosh, that's interesting. It's really interesting. And psychiatrists, Norman Doig, I think that's how you pronounce it explains when pornographers boast that they're pushing the envelope by introducing new harder themes.
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What they don't say, is that they have to because their consumers are building up a tolerance to the content.
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Yeah, which is really scary, isn't it when we're talking about our teenagers, because then they're seeing these things that are not normal, and then it's being normalized. So then, as you say, they go out into the world, and they expect to find that. And that's not what they find. And then that leads to all sorts of problems with shame
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and shame and the problems with the sexual functioning, and even just being able to connect with the person because they don't think that that person looks the way that they should look, or they
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get, you know, massive insecurities about the way they look, because not everybody looks like somebody in a porn movie.
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But also, I mean, coming coming back to the insisting I had the most disturbing conversation with a woman, I must have been at least 10, if not 10 years ago, say, when I was just a mother, who was a police woman, and she said, we are seeing increasing amounts of young adolescents coming in who have committed incest. And they don't even know that what they've done isn't right. Gosh, that's shocking.
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Yeah. And so for me, that was one of those moments when I just gossiped, and I thought, gosh, you know, what are we? What are we doing by not having conversations about these things? You know, adolescence, we need to get on top of this.
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Yeah, because it's the conversation as in all the topics we cover, it's the conversation that matters is how we, how we approach it at home so that they, they know that it's not normal, is so helpful.
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They need to know that
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and I think framing it in the sense that saying, Okay, this is the number of people who are accessing this so we're not saying you're nothing you're not a bad person you're doing what a lot of people are doing here are the problems with it, in terms of how it's going to affect you.
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Yeah, because we don't want to we don't want them to feel shameful we want them to feel the opposite. We want our teenagers to feel amazing about their bodies and amazing about their sexuality. We don't want them feeling wrong for it. And I think particularly maybe in the culture we have here is is you know we're a bit you know, we don't really like talking about sex the only here
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and that's why I think the the thing to do is come at it with no numbers and data science, because that removes the IQ, though Yeah, they just comfort I think it always does for me when I'm talking to my children around very matter of fact about and say, Okay, so here's what's going on with the rest of the world, let's just talk about and we can sit, you don't have to say, are you doing this? If you're going to have a conversation with the team, the team is never going to bring this up, they're not going to come to you and say, Hey, Mom, Hey, Dad, I've just been watching this porn watching, they're not going to say that.
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So you're probably not yet. So you have to find it in yourself, dig deep, and find the opportunity. Not once either. It needs to happen on any opportunity, you can find maybe even a car when you're driving somewhere, you're not having to look each other in the eye, or when they're just about to leave. And you can just have a quick, you know, just short, yes.
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And whether they don't know trapped and present, you know, the presumption that they if they haven't seen it, they will and if then you know that it's just it's that side of it's normal, that's normal curiosity, but let's have a conversation about it and remind them that the sex that they see in porn is not normal, most of it and having a loving relationship. So, you know, coming from a science point, I think that's brilliant, you know, biology, it's biology, lots of lots of it. But also from a feelings perspective. You know, how do you want to feel with somebody?
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I love that.
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Yes. How
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do you want to? You know,
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that's the mindfulness one. That's
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the moment Yeah, all awareness of how do you want to feel that, that that be your guide, never doing something you feel uncomfortable with and, and giving them you know, the confidence and the awareness to if somebody has seen something in porn that they want to do?
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And they think that's normal?
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And it doesn't feel good? Being able and confident enough to go no, I don't want to do that.
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That doesn't feel good. That feels awful. But you have to have an awareness of what feels okay. And not okay. As a starting block.
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Yes. I love that. And also, if they say no, but everybody's doing it. You say, Well, no, they're not because I'm not. Yeah. And that, you know, it might be that way in porn, but that's not real.
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You can say that, look, you might have seen that somewhere.
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But actually, that's not real life at all. It's not real life for me. So I, you know, if you have to say it's not, I'm not the right person for that, then that's fine.
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Because it's hard as a team. Yeah, hard. It's really
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talking to them about them, talking to them about how a porn video works. It revolves around flimsy plot, and a premise that quickly leads to sex that focuses almost exclusively on male pleasure.
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It's often rough, different positions, you know, these men have stamina. And the woman climaxes immediately, yeah, almost immediately, she's having the best time ever.
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You know, most porn actors are muscley and well endowed Well, or they're not. And that's okay.
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But the women have to be gorgeous. Yeah, you know, and the poor girls who see this and think, oh, you know, what's wrong with my Volvo? Because it doesn't look like that
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fresh shave every.
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It's completely normal. And also the idea of, you know, the dark side, which is huge in the porn world that, you know, a lot of particularly the women are, you know, they're pretty much sex slaves is hideous. It's so toxic. Yes. It's not real life in any in any sense. Yeah,
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absolutely.
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Absolutely. So talking about the things that you might find awkward to talk about, but that actually really, really help. So masturbation, for example, you know, boys talk about it freely, they will at it, girls barely talk about it ever. Yeah. I tried to have a conversation with my daughter about it. A while back, and she was like, oh. And I said, like, why is it just cussing. I mean, you need to understand how your body works and make yourself happy.
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And then I tried it. And I think maybe she's a bit young. But I will go back then
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the emphasis being on you know, that our bodies are beautiful, and they feel nice and celebrating that rather than making it weird,
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and talking to them about how you know, it's actually really, really cool behind your door in your bath, or having a shower or whatever, and have a go without porn. So teaching your teenagers to find pleasure in their bodies without because the problem is, if you're always reliant on pornography, to get you to that space, then that's when the dysregulation starts to happen.
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So you need to have a conversation with them about sexual desires. And this the range of things that can give pleasure that not penetration.
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And I think it's starting starting small as on and it all depends on our own our own, you know, how comfortable we are talking about sex at all, and doing it in a way that feels comfortable, so you don't have to sort of go jump in headfirst, if that doesn't feel good, because they'll pick up on that immediately. And it would just be weird for everybody. And also, I mean, I have two boys and I parent alone. I'm not sure they'd want to talk about masturbation with me. But I'm pretty sure how that conversation would go. But I could, you know, I can you know, I can you know model that a body is is a beautiful thing that it's you know, it's it's energy, isn't it? It's energy and It's enjoying ourselves. But I
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also think that I also think that it's, it can be awkward. And the best person to give the the talk is the person who feels least least uncomfortable about it. But but it's also, rather than saying, you or I, if you say, this is what most people, this is what we're seeing from the statistics, this is how so if you take it away from the house and away from the family, and you just talk about it in generic terms, it's much less uncomfortable. And also just if they say, so what do you do? You just say, it's not really appropriate for me, in the same way that it's not appropriate for me to ask you detailed questions about what you're doing. I don't want to pry, but I want to talk about it in general terms. Yeah. And
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from a feelings perspective on the feelings, how do you want to feel how to how do you feel about it, it's really, really good starting point.
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So the other thing that's really important to stress is delaying exposure as long as possible, because the average age that kids lose their virginity is between 15 and 17.
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But kids as young as eight have been given laptops and phones, and the later they're exposed, the better because the longer they've had to develop their prefrontal cortex and their understanding of love and affection, and you know, just sexuality. So tips for that are really things like keeping computers and devices in a public place downstairs, in the kitchen, or wherever. And, you know, minimizing the amount of time they're in their room with it.
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And also the EOC understanding that they, you know, they are going to be exposed to it, they are going to watch it instead of you know, resisting that. delaying it.
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Yeah, sure if you can do that brilliant, but because you can't unsee what you see in Kenya, but but that they will be exposed to it. So having the conversations and
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get it so they can frame it. Yeah. And also not overreacting. So if you so what I've seen instances where, you know, this mother walked in on her son with some quite aggressive porn, and she was really upset and overreacted.
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And she said, I know I've overreacted and I don't know what to do. It's really important that if we discover our teenager, doing this stuff, again, that we need to be able to sit down and have a conversation about it. That's, that's non shaming, because shaming actually sends them more down that route. Because they feel so bad, and they think there's something wrong with them. But also just don't assume anything. They may have been sent this stuff by someone else.
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And actually the stuff that gets sent, you know, when my husband was at school, they used to pass about whoever brought in the magazine. Yeah, they weren't, you know, kudos. Yeah. And they pass the pictures around. And so you know, what, what happens is, is usually the most extreme stuff that they're passing around, can you see this? Yeah, so if you, if you catch your team looking at something that's outrageous, don't assume,
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I think shame is such an important thing to mention here. Because if shame comes into, which it often does, in our society, when we talk about sex, we were not great, we're not that comfortable about talking about sex. So shame, we often shamed into it. And that means that the conversation has shut down, but maybe more importantly, it it leaves the teenager or the person you're talking about talking too, with, with horrible feelings, that there's something wrong with them, or there's something wrong with sexuality, that it just it just frames it in a really, really bad way. So not shaming them, it's normal. And if we've like encountered something that we find difficult to watch, or we want to talk to our team about it, but we don't really know how to approach it. I find I find it really useful just to ask questions, like, if I don't know what to say to you, I don't know what to say ask questions.
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So why are you watching that?
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You know, you know, just any, any facts, any, you know, anything? What do you like about it anything, and that just sort of, it opens the conversation, as opposed to shutting it down, and then can lead you into having a proper conversation about it.
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And when it comes to things like non binary sexuality, the way that we can help both sis, children and those people who are you moving in those other directions, is by stressing that, you know, these these norms of boy, man, girl, you know, man and penetrating woman and woman on her back or whatever it is our only one way of a massive universe of ways of making someone feel lovely. Yes.
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So what I think you're, it's a brilliant point you're making about how do you feel? And that, you know, for people who are exploring their sexuality, there are so many different ways of feeling good. Yeah, please don't limit yourself. And don't think that by talking about it, you're going to encourage them to be more sexual, what will actually happen is they will be more in tune with themselves and more likely to be more careful about the experiences they have because there'll be treasuring How am I feeling?
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Yeah, there'll be more considered in whatever they do. There'll be more thoughtful.
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Yeah,
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I think that's always the fear of, oh, if I talk about it, then I'm condoning it, and then then they're going to go and do it more. But actually, what they're finding is people who are accessing horn tend to have riskier behavior, because it's not contextualized. And they're getting the sense of everybody's doing this all the time. And this is the way they're behaving. And they're more likely to be sexting and they're more likely, you know, because they'll go, well, everyone's doing it.
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Yeah, no talking about it doesn't make it more nice. It's the opposite now,
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when to get help. If you've got a teenager who's avoiding making connections, and developing any romantic relationships in real life, you know, it might be worth looking into whether they've developed some kind of problem because of watching accessing porn, who knows, if your child seems to be spending an inordinate amount of time with a laptop in their room, and, you know, it might be worth, you know, actually broaching the subject of online porn and whether they've got trapped in a cycle, because these things can be fixed. But the sooner that you get in some help, and you get them understanding that there's, they're not broken, that they just need some support, the better. If your child is quite young, but starts talking about porn, you may well need to step in, because this could be a groomer, they'll show them things that they're not ready for, to see what their reaction is to sort of prime them. Yeah, that's really important. It's really important to look out for that. So if you suddenly realize that your child's being a bit more sexual, or they're saying, you know, it's worth just finding out whether something's going on there.
00:26:20.579 --> 00:26:37.829
Yeah. You know, the whole time that with the with the talk of porn, having the context of it's, it's, it's natural. It's curiosity. They're exploring, let's make it fun, and taking care and normalizing the normal stuff and ABS normalizing the abnormal stuff.
00:26:35.490 --> 00:26:37.829
And they're aware of that.
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:40.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:37.920 --> 00:27:18.059
Have you discovered your teenager using porn, I really recommend using the culture reframed website, which I have gotten in the podcast notes for getting as much information is possible, on how to navigate it and how to discuss it with your teenager, I also came across a really interesting blogger, and she now has an Instagram account. And she has a book out and she goes by the moniker of blah, blah, blah, let me explain. Great name. Yes, she is all about consent and about, you know, how to look out for the people who aren't very nice and are going to treat you well. And to avoid them and how to find the people who are, you know, genuinely looking for connection, that wonderful word that you always use.
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:24.059
Yeah. And consent always starts with knowing yourself and an awareness of what's okay and what's not.
00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:26.759
Okay. If we don't know that, then it's really hard to judge
00:27:26.789 --> 00:27:39.809
Yes. And it's hard to say no, because you're thinking and well, I don't know what. So we'd love to know, if you have any other things you'd like us to cover, you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and help at teenagers untangled.com.
00:27:39.809 --> 00:28:14.490
And if you need any help with mindfulness techniques, and series is always available for online consultations, as well as in person. Now, we've had a lot of parents saying that even when they're at home with their teens, they're struggling to find things to do together that everyone will enjoy. So we thought we'd talk about our own experience. The joyous, happy, lovely times we have with our teammate. Yeah, every day, through the meadow with wildflowers and, and we've had some great feedback from some of our listeners, we do actually have a Facebook page, it's a group so just asked to join it.
00:28:14.490 --> 00:28:22.980
And you know, it's not very active. But you know, occasionally there'll be people giving advice, and it's very useful to connect with people.
00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:57.930
So we've had Sarah, who said she'd really enjoyed walking with her family. And that's very much the case with me. And it goes in fits and starts. So sometimes we're all really, really keen. And then we walked out and actually dragging them out to do it can be hard sometimes. But I've got the all trails out, I really recommend it. It's fantastic. Because I think it covers the whole world because I've been in France and you used it, and it will show you paths that you've never thought existed. And in fact, I found paths around my house during lockdown using this app, which have changed our life and my dog walks and giving me some variety that I just didn't know existed. So I really it's fantastic. Yeah.
00:28:58.170 --> 00:29:21.869
I mean, I have a word I use. It's nudging. It's perfect. Yes, because I find with my law. You know, sometimes they don't really want to do stuff. So for example, this weekend, I wanted to go to the Bluebell woods with my eldest was away. And me and my partner wants to go to the Bluebell Woods is stunning around here.
00:29:17.670 --> 00:30:20.099
And my 214 year olds were like me. Not sure I really want to do that. And so I really nudged them, which meant that I kind of kind of made them but in a sort of gentle pushing. Come on, come on, come on. We took cakes, okay, perfect. On a lot of cakes, and we sat in the woods, and when we got there, it was brilliant, which it often is. So there's the kind of the nudging to get them there and knowing they're going to enjoy it. And they you know, they were climbing trees running around like kids, it was lovely. And then we ate a lot of cake. But then, you know, some days they're nudging you can feel when you're nudging them On Sundays, the nudging is like, okay, and you can feel that there's a chink and you nudge a bit more, and they go and it's lovely. And then some days, there's like, no, I really don't want to go. So the following day, we went to the craziest festival, ever, which I highly recommend. Go Jack in the green down in Hastings,
00:30:20.490 --> 00:30:25.380
which is the south of England. Near is actually where there was a big battle that went on.
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:36.509
What happens is, Jack is there releasing the releasing summer, and everyone's dressed in green. And there's Morris dancing, and it's mental.
00:30:31.829 --> 00:30:43.349
But really, really good fun. My youngest boy wants to go so to come down. My daughter was like, No, I really don't want to go and retired. That looks really weird.
00:30:45.509 --> 00:30:46.650
And what you right or wrong?
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:56.579
Oh, she was completely right. And I loved it. But she, you know, you could feel that that was that was not knowledgeable. I respect that.
00:30:54.029 --> 00:31:30.599
That was not her thing. Yeah, not her thing. So she didn't have to come to that. So it's picking picking the nudging mode? Yes. And also bringing to the whatever you want to do, whether it's playing a game, making cookies, going for a walk, going on an expedition, whatever it is, making sure that you're bringing a good energy, because I found that if I'm not doing that, which happens, it's not fun for anyone. And then no one wants to do it again. And it's just you're just doing it for the sake of doing it. We ought to be doing something together as a family. And it's not fun. So bringing in energy, and if you can't muster up an energy that day, then don't don't
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:41.759
try it. Yes, you're absolutely right. And it's always me who has to bring the energy. I mean, I sort of bounced my husband into a festival in the Isle of Wight.
00:31:41.789 --> 00:31:53.519
And we've never been to festival. He's not a festival man at all. I have I've been to reading Rock Festival. It was the worst worst day of my life, not one of my life. But it was the worst day of my adolescence, I think. And it's just hard.
00:31:53.549 --> 00:32:47.940
It's horrible. It's just because I felt crushed. I felt agoraphobic, claustrophobic, I felt that I was surrounded by people taking drugs, and I didn't like a music. And you know, if it's not your thing, it's not your thing. But But I went to this festival, because they were several bands that we all said, Yeah, we really liked that band. It was such a fantastic time. And we all I think the sunshine helped. And my daughters have since talked about it many, many times. And they saying what were festival girls, now we want to go to more festivals. And it really, really worked. Now, it's not the cheapest thing. But it's an easy way for your whole family to it's a cheaper way of going and seeing a band than it is going to see the individual bands, because it's about all the other stuff. And we dressed up in crazy outfits. And it was it's just great. So yes, trying to whoever is in the family who might say why don't that's not my thing. You never know. And coming on to that the games, family games, family
00:32:47.940 --> 00:33:13.529
games, and it's the enthusiasm isn't it? So whatever you bring, you know, whether it's games or a festival, if you're enthusiastic about it, they might think you're a nutcase which my kids usually do. Or, you know, just dancing in the kitchen. If you're enthusiastic about it. It's contagious. Yeah, they might think, you know, putting a thumb and a finger on their, you know, loser loser thing, which I often get. But it's kind of they they're like, oh, let's join in a little bit. Yes, we play games. Sometimes when I
00:33:13.529 --> 00:33:32.250
was younger, when I was a teenager, remember wandering around the house going on, somebody play cards with me when somebody pick up and nobody wanted to play cards with me. So that stuck in my mind. And then later, I was at a very wealthy person's house, and the kids were all playing board games, I think they were playing risk.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:34:01.529
And I thought, That's what rich people do. When I grew up, I'm going to be board games. And so my family have been stuck with this attitude. So you know, they aren't a game family or they weren't a game family until I married into it. And I sort of bounced everyone into playing games at Christmas and it's now become a big thing. So we our favorite games for people who might be interested, I think like Peruzzo monopoly deal.
00:33:55.410 --> 00:34:05.160
Monopoly generally Ludo Katyn apparently is fantastic. I don't know that. Well, we tried it.
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:07.170
And then it wasn't that great.
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:14.849
And then I spoken to some parents who said meet up with some other friends we're going to placate and so these are adults. Yeah. So the kids love it so much. And the parents love it. That's got to be a win.
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:18.659
Yeah. My kids often like the younger look up Keaton.
00:34:18.989 --> 00:34:35.099
My kids often like the classic you know, the traditional ones that that they know the rules to and they that they can do Yeah, so that there's not too much I mean, no, they're up for playing out you know, playing a more complicated play game, but I don't want to learn anything.
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:38.789
No, exactly. I want to just sit here and win. And beat you.
00:34:40.048 --> 00:35:04.259
I think this one called the game break Great Britain. Really? Well, I love that because you get members of the family who completely ganging up on each other whoever's whoever has been the most cocky. That's their eyeball. Yes, it was so much fun. So yes, that's another good one. So those games and cards you know, right like as a family why did we learn how to play poker? Hmm. or chess all those games can be really the problem with chess is it's one to one.
00:35:04.259 --> 00:35:05.039
So it's Yeah.
00:35:05.250 --> 00:35:26.789
But the game thing is also I mean, I remember in lockdown when we had some stuff with my eldest back and there wasn't a massive amount of extra energy around, we kind of were stagnating. And I remember suggesting games and nobody wanted to play and I didn't really want to play. I know, it was like, Oh, we probably should be playing games. Everyone's playing games. It's locked down.
00:35:22.829 --> 00:35:28.800
And then I remember, yeah, I remember just going to you know, what I can't really be asked.
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:34.769
It's just watch telly. And then when you know, when we had more energy afterwards, and you know, the world looks a bit different.
00:35:34.769 --> 00:35:43.019
And we didn't have any back problems and all of the things that were weighing down, then it's fun. And then everyone's like, Yeah, let's play. So you pick your moments.
00:35:43.050 --> 00:36:22.289
Yes. And I love Jessie's comment because she said, she said they love growing caravanning and everybody in the family pulls together, and they all got their little jobs. And she said, you know, no matter how much they'd been bickering, when they all go, caravanning and then she wrote back and said, Actually, it was awful. I felt so sorry, for just because I was my heart was there for her. I was thinking, Yeah, that sounds great. But it can really work. So it just sometimes sometimes it doesn't. And that's okay, move on. And just try again. And I have found that I think what we do as adults with is we think, okay, there's the jobs. And then there are the teenagers. And we forget that when they were little they really wanted to do the jobs.
00:36:19.289 --> 00:36:27.480
And there's there's a sort of disconnect as they become teenagers with what you mean, you want me to do a job. Yeah.
00:36:25.260 --> 00:37:16.349
But I think part of that is because we say right, you go and do this, cleaning the loo and you get like you think they're going to like it. But actually, I've started doing projects. So for example, we have this little square pond that's leftover and it's horrible, and it's full of weed, and it's but it's got some lily pads in it. And we've got another pond that's a natural pond nearby. And I call my daughter Madison said, Oh, please, can you help me. And we've pulled this massive mass of Lily that was all grass growing into it and pulled it all apart, cleaned it down and put it into the other pond. She told me I love that mummy was so much fun because we were doing we were working together. And she every time she sees that lily pad now she knows that we did that. Yeah. And also we plant seeds together. So I'll say why I bought these seeds.
00:37:13.889 --> 00:37:24.000
Let's go about planting them when we figure out where they're going to get. So anything where I think we underestimate the benefit of doing a job together.
00:37:24.030 --> 00:37:41.639
Yeah, I think you're right. And that they do want to know how to do stuff, but it's the way we sell tell them they've got to do it. It's very appealing. But if you're going to even assembling a wardrobe or just anything where you put them in charge and say hey, let's I'm your you know, I'm your staff. How are we going to do this?
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:54.869
Yeah, brilliant. I mean, I my eldest I remember teaching him how to do Ikea furniture and sort of presenting it to him as as a life skill that you need to know how to do this. And he I mean, it's a bit like Legos, navy, he loves it.
00:37:55.889 --> 00:38:47.820
But it's also finding out what what makes your kid tick. Like if I want to do something with my eldest then it has usually involves food, preferably junk food, and then he'll pretty much come along interest my daughter likes going shopping or some of the nicest times we've spent together just lying in this cheap hammock I bought on Amazon. It's lovely. We just lie there and like about a dozen have to an icon and the dog tries to get in and get out. It doesn't have to be like an activity per se it can just be hanging out in the way that you know that your kid likes. My young my youngest boy is sort of he's more friend oriented. But he loves He loves playing board games actually or, or he'll still dance in the kitchen. I really hope he's never going to hear this because he listens to grime music and he was trying to teach me how to dance to grow.
00:38:47.849 --> 00:38:48.690
Now that
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:59.579
it that would be a great thing. Whatever dance they're doing on Tik Tok or whatever, try and learn it. I love shuffle and I just can't do it. I'm terrible. Yeah, but I just look at it and think there's so much joy in that.
00:38:59.579 --> 00:39:05.489
Yeah. So it's hilarious for them. Or maybe not maybe they just think you're a loser if you try it, but it's worth a go.
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:11.579
It's fine in the kitchen. I find if you start doing it in a traffic jam on the motorway, then you are not popular.
00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:22.050
One woman on that she's a DJ actually. And she's I love her because I love her spirit. Then she shuffled answers, and I love shopping.
00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:38.489
And she just got up and did a shuffle dance on a table in a ski resort and said at the end of it, she said, I hope this encourages all of you to try this, you know, get up at a table and dance and I thought, yeah, I would be off that table on the floor within seconds trying that wouldn't look good.
00:39:35.130 --> 00:39:38.489
My family would never judge me.
00:39:39.389 --> 00:39:51.210
Never got my son My daughter has actually looked at me dancing on a table and say Mommy, can you just get down right? Yeah. And then you know, you're winning.
00:39:47.820 --> 00:40:04.769
Right? So and Jess also said that, you know, her family love having guests around. So they love doing that whole like the family let's plan for it. You know, what are you going to cook? How should we decorate the house? What should you Is this the sort of get together things that feel really joyous?
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:36.329
Yes. And also, maybe also, just having a look at our expectation can be helpful as well. Because we often have this expectation that, you know, we ought to be doing family stuff, we hear other people, even just the stuff that we have just said that, you know, I do stuff with my teens, I do not do that every day. And, you know, it's an occasion thing, and we don't have to be doing this stuff all the time. So, you know, not feeling bad if teenagers tell us to get lost. Absolutely. But just, you know, grabbing the moments when, when, and if they arrive,
00:40:36.360 --> 00:41:00.659
no. And actually, the natural thing that we've we slipped into is my older daughter really enjoys cooking. And she loves that I allow her to experiment in the kitchen. And so we're in the kitchen together, I'll cook things, she'll cook things, and we're just side by side working together. Lovely. And the other daughter, I've now started walking the dogs to the train station that she comes to comes back from school, and we walk all the way home. And it's just chatter.
00:41:00.690 --> 00:41:03.570
Yes, I'm reeling with my kids, just
00:41:04.110 --> 00:41:06.690
with the kid who's running ahead and the kid is behind
00:41:07.829 --> 00:41:13.920
him, and he's dropped something or has to get back for something. And the dog doesn't know who to walk with.
00:41:14.489 --> 00:41:14.969
That's really
00:41:14.969 --> 00:41:27.510
funny. We'd love to hear any other suggestions because this is a continuous problem for everybody. I think it's the means of connection. So sometimes you have to generate these things sometimes. And you can fall into them naturally.
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:28.050
But they're always worth pursuing.
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:32.280
Yeah. And if you're not sure what to do something like that, just doing what, you know, what, what are you doing?
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:40.829
Can I watch? Yeah, and if you're gaming, can I watch? Can I can I do? Yes. Yeah. Might go? No, they might go Yeah. And then you kind of can have a conversation about it. Yes.
00:41:40.980 --> 00:42:12.869
Or just whatever series they're watching on TV, just sit down and watch it with them, so that you've got something that you've shared together. Well, that's it for now, we'd love to hear about your favorite games and activities that can be shared with teenagers next time, we'll talk about teenage anxiety, there have been reports of a massive rise in it. So what's behind it? What can you do as a parent? Also setting rules in your home? How do you go about it when dealing with a teenager who's challenging them? And what consequences should you put in place if your teenager breaks them?
00:42:12.989 --> 00:42:14.820
Well, I can't wait to discuss that one.
00:42:17.309 --> 00:42:32.849
I think it's a really fun one. And I do think I do think, you know, looking at the way governments work, whenever they try and put new laws in place, they always have to think about how people are going to skirt their way around the laws. So it's a natural human tendency to look at a rule and think, Oh, how do I get what I want out of that?
00:42:32.940 --> 00:42:37.110
We have a tendency, don't we? There are four tendencies. Maybe we can talk about them. Oh,
00:42:37.139 --> 00:42:39.420
I have where you can tell me all about that.
00:42:39.659 --> 00:42:41.760
Thank you particular rule breakers.
00:42:41.789 --> 00:42:52.590
I want to hear about that. That's going to be next week. That's it for now. We hope we've given you some helpful advice. Good luck with the negotiating, who has those talks with your teams. And goodbye, goodbye for now.
