Transcript
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Hello, I'm Rachel Richards and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug where we use research by experts and our own experience to discuss everything and anything to do with parenting teenagers.
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Hello, I'm Susie Asli, mindfulness coach, and that psychotherapist and musician and mother of three teenagers, two of them are twins.
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As a parenting coach, I've seen the transformative power of listening to how other parents work. We can feel supported, get fresh ideas, and even if we disagree, it helps us to think more clearly about the way we parent and why. So welcome. Pull up a chair. And let's begin. So let's start off with our nugget.
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Suzy, what have you got for us this week?
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There's always lots so I have to kind of filter it down, which is nice. Yeah, it's really nice reflecting on it.
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But I've picked this week, the idea of grabbing moments. We've talked about that before, but really grabbing, grabbing the moments and setting the tone for those moments. So my nugget is it was Halloween. Last week.
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We've always done masters for Halloween when my kids were little we made a big mess basically every year, which is really fun creating losing things really fun. And we did I wasn't sure whether they'd want to so we got some pumpkins. My youngest boy who's always loved Halloween more than Christmas when he was little just loved it. We got the pumpkins. He's like we need pumpkins. Okay, brilliant. So then Halloween evening, he's like, Come on, we gotta carve them. And so I dropped everything and was like, Okay, I'm here. Let's do that.
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Do this. And then I asked my eldest who's almost 18 whether he wants to join and expecting him to go Now that sounds really lame. I'm going to do something else. And he was like, Oh, okay.
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Kay, came in, did his pumpkin my daughter came down, did her pumpkin and we had the funniest.
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I think it's about an hour where we were making pumpkins. there was loads of banter, they were ripping each other's pumpkins going best or best how your competition? That's so awful. It was just so funny.
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And did you have a vote at the end of it that we normally do that? Yes, yes. No, we didn't do that. And I caused a Rao in my friend's household because they put their they sent me photos of all their pumpkins. And I chose one just for a laugh for my social media.
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And everyone else was
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offended. Careful, but it's that it was the nugget was, you know, grabbing them and setting the tone it was it was so much fun.
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Yeah, I love that. Like, because we talked before about how you get your teenagers and have fun with them. Yeah, just take take the opportunity, particularly one of them brings it up. Don't sit there and say no, I can't do it.
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I was
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in the middle of cooking dinner. So I could have gone and you know what you get started? And I'll join you in a bit. But you know, then the moments probably passed. Yes.
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And that memory will stay with you. Yeah. So my nugget this week is to do with something I've started at home, I do have one teenager who's more inclined to leave things out, just like her father. And I've started saying to her, when you leave things out, what you're doing is actively telling everybody else in the house is someone else's job. And it's actually been very powerful, because I will see some things for example, you know, clothes on the floor of the shower room, I'll come downstairs and find the person and say, so there are clothes on the shop floor of that shower room. Who were you telling to do that job. And obviously scuttled upstairs, I'm going to integrate it up. And you know, the same thing with breakfast dishes, anything like that. So it's been really powerful, because it's actually because I can pin them down. And I do have an answer ready should because because some parents will say well, what if your child says well, it's your job.
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So I have that answer ready? My parent my children wouldn't dare do it. But anyway, and it is that I would look sweetly at them and smile and say, oh, yeah, of course I can't get my doing it at all. So I think that would take what 510 Maybe five minutes, I don't know. But I charge my hourly rate out at this amount so and then I would take it out of the allowance.
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This is why the allowance is so powerful. I say I'll take that because payment it's fine I'm absolutely fine. But because you didn't ask in advance there's also a penalty for for that because that's how it works in banking if you actually get an overdraft without requesting it first they will give you a big penalty but because it's you it's only a small penalty this time next time it'll be more but that's no it's absolutely fine.
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I love so funny
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but my kids know that that's how I function and how I think so they wouldn't dare Amin
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come in source our finances
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now every generation rolls its eyes in despair the youth of today but other teams now any more entitled than they were what do you think Suzy?
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Oh, it's a bit Have a minefield that one isn't it?
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Because I think often we get that classic generational Oh, the use of today, they're so awful. And they don't have any manners or respect or bla bla bla bla. And I think there's definitely a huge element of that. Yes. Because the way we bring up teenagers and the way we are with our kids now is completely different in our generation. It always is, we, you know, we ask them to be really mindful of what they're thinking and to voice their needs and to be assertive in a in a positive way and to have boundaries. And then we go, oh, but you've gone too far. Now, you're really entitled, we don't like that.
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Jeremy Clarkson, who's a well known, humorous, opinionated old man recently wrote a diatribe about teenagers of today, sort of, you know, along the lines of what you're saying. He says he genuinely believes that today's teenagers are far more hopeless than anything humanity has ever produced before. Food intolerances, he says, you know, parents are now letting their kids demand things that they would never have done before. He says, Now they didn't have to wait for TV, they just dial it up on Netflix and Internet, and he's looking back at his youth.
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Yeah, I can better off. People are being shut down. So the teens don't have to listen to things they don't like. They've even got it into their heads that they could decide what sex they'd like to be.
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I mean, how dare they doesn't a newspaper.
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And then along came COVID and told them that they can get a stars in all their A levels without doing any revision. And he said, you know, he looks at the what happened at the reading Rock Festival in Leeds rock festival in the UK this summer, and people burning tents and throwing chairs into the crowds. And he says, you know, no one's ever said that they couldn't, not their parents, not their teachers, and certainly not the police.
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He sounds like a jealous old man.
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There was a touch of that in the entire article. I mean, there were lots of the responses of people were all like, they were all old, too, I'm sure. And because we do this every every generation, we do grandparents going on May Day, yeah, we had to chew up your data 100 times.
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We want to we want it already, don't we? But I mean, there was obviously behavior that's that is isn't acceptable. Or that's usually relational. And it's between people, things that we don't like. But the you know, the whole, the big sweep of the youth of today is dreadful, I don't really buy it.
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No, I didn't buy it either. So looking at the definition of entitled, because we can use a sort of drill down as to what we're talking about here. The definition that I've got his by a man called Robert Porter, all the links are in the write up of our a podcast. He says a sense of entitlement is a personality trait that is based on a person's belief that they deserve privileges or recognition for things that they didn't earn. So in simple terms, people experiencing this believe that the world owes them something in exchange for nothing. And the reason that's important is because they will be upset for not getting something that they think that they should be getting, even if we think they don't necessarily deserve it, or haven't they haven't earned it. Yeah. It's interesting, because I looked into self worth, and there are people trying to measure self worth, you know, as there are people trying to measure everything. And several researchers have gone into this.
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And there's a there's a self esteem scale, which is called the Rosenberg self esteem scale.
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And this has been used, I think it was started in 1965. But there was one particular study that went from 1968 to 95, I think, twang and Campbell and they found that the level of self esteem has risen substantially over that time.
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And that when you compare the scores of people in the teens in 1960s, with those now, or rather than 2001, I think they've got here, and there was a 73% increase of people who were had high self esteem. So people feel better about themselves, which doesn't necessarily mean they're entitled.
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No. And and, you know, it's always a question of how is that measured? And, you know, before before this, the teenagers that are now you know, how are you? How are you asking the questions, all of that
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all of us are very consistently done every year, the same sort of cohorts of people, you know, this, that you always have to have a big question mark over these things.
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So, so let's say that we don't think self esteem necessarily is the self esteem is the thing I think a lot of old people look at now. And you know, for example, my 20 year olds who are out in the workplace are very much happier telling people who are in Superior positions that they're not prepared to put up with something Yeah, right. But they do it in a wonder I'm so impressed and a bit intimidated because the way they they do it is very sophisticated, and they just look at it and say well, I'm not going had to put up with that. And I think back and think, you know, I did, yeah, but I love that.
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Yeah. And the power systems don't like that do they just, you know, we like what works. And if you're in a position where it's working for you, and that the youth of today or wherever you want the young people, they, you know, they take it and they shut up and they don't complain. That's pretty easy, isn't it? And now we're teaching our young, hopefully, they have better self esteem. And we're teaching them to set their boundaries and to, to, you know, make sure that their needs are taken care of, I think that's a really good thing. But if you if that's rocking your boat, you're not gonna like it.
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No, you're quite. And I think the the difficulty is, as a parent, knowing how do I raise children who have high self worth, and not ones that are entitled, who think that they deserve things when they haven't done anything to earn it?
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Yes, because it can go it can go to a place that is not very pleasant in an honest, socially.
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Yes. So why does it happen? The sources of entitlement are not fully understood. But researchers have pointed to factors such as you know, the spoiled child that when parents never say, No, they were saying yes to whatever they want, overpraising children for small tasks, which leads them down a path of constantly seeking approval for things and and then they feel discouraged when they don't receive that.
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But I'm not sure that's really entitlement, then when they don't push their child through a difficult phase, and they just given an allow them things being favored by teachers, or families, coaches, when you're brilliant at something, and then they don't pull you up on the other things that are socially unacceptable, just because you're such a great, so you know, the typical the sports person who's great at something, and then they have horrible behavior in other areas, but they're not reprimanded for it.
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Yeah. It seems to be at the core of all of that. I mean, how you label it is, you know, depending on your perspective, isn't it? The entitlement? Yeah, I don't know.
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But that comes back again, to that we hate discomfort. We hate sitting with discomfort when it's our own discomfort. And when we see our kids, it's discomfort, if they voice a need, and we, you know, we see them struggling with something, we want to quickly stick a plaster over it. So we might give them more than naturally they need. You know, the spoiled kid, you know, what can we bear?
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Can we bear the kid going? I wonder what it was? Yeah, you know, can we bear that. And that is, seems to be more of the linking
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linking thing.
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Very interesting. And actually, that comes to the one of the most painful scenarios, which is the clogs to clogs, where people who've grown up really very poor, or very disadvantaged, who then don't want to see their children going through the same things, and they'll do anything they can to ensure that their children get everything they want. And unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily end very well.
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No, no, because we we hate seeing our kids in pain, and then we hate the discomfort of that. So we're just doing it with things or patching over.
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Oh, dear, it doesn't matter here have this. Yes. So the difference, I guess is, you know, there's there's nothing wrong with our kids voicing needs. You know, the classic might be in a smaller kid or even a teenager, you know, I really want you know, I really want that really beautiful, expensive computer, I really want it. And that can easily be smacked down with oh, well, it's the Reese looked at the price tag, and it's so expensive, I can't afford that, etc, etc.
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You're so spoiled kind of thing.
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Another approach could be Oh, wow, yeah, that computers amazing. I completely understand why you would want that is a candidate do amazing things.
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Yeah, that makes perfect sense that you'd like that. I would like one of those two. However, we can't afford that right now.
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So let's keep that as a dream and maybe put it on your list for the future. But I totally get why you'd want that I have a different vibe about this
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validating their desires and the things they're dreaming about, rather than making them feel bad about it. But at the same time, explain. Yeah, it's not, you know, I'm just, I wouldn't just go and walk in there and buy it.
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No, then like, I hope in my home that my kids understand that their needs, their desires, their wishes are never wrong. They might not get them. They might not be met.
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Yes. But the voicing of them is never wrong.
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Yes. And you're not a brat first. You'd like because then shame. I love that.
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I love that it's a really good way of way of dealing with that particular scenario. And why is it such a problem? So there's a lady called Arland coincheck, who wrote a piece in very well mind looking at entitlement. And she said that when it comes to the workplace, the problem is that these people who are over entitled can wreak havoc in a team because they may spend more time focusing on doing things quickly rather than doing the work well. They may have trouble meeting deadlines and often seek instant rapid gratification for their work. They can create conflict because What they'll do is they'll hand off work that they don't think they should be having to do. In the all sorts of it's coming back to what you were saying, which is it's a relational problem.
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Yeah. And there's nothing like I recognize all of those things. I mean, who doesn't want to do their work quickly? If we're honest, yeah.
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But it's how it's met. It's not the it again, it's not the needs, the desires, the wishes, there's anything wrong with we want to get through some stuff quickly. It's how it's met. Are you allowed to get away with that? Or Did somebody go actually, do you know what, I need you to step up a bit more?
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And is there a sense that you know, you're in a workplace, you've joined this workplace, you're in a team, and when you won't do something, then it ends up falling on someone else? And that sense of entitlement is going to affect other people? Negatively? Yeah.
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So
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then there's a lack of empathy, isn't there? So there's like a crossover with other things that we've Yes, it's the lack of empathy. This is, you know, traits of narcissistic traits. I mean, we all have them. We're all on a continuum of that. But the idea that we don't, we don't have empathy, we don't understand that when we are taking and maybe not pulling our weight that's actually affecting somebody else. And if we're not taught to be aware of that, then then that can end badly.
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Yes. Now, the benefits of entitlement, because there are benefits are, you know, research shows that entitled, people are sometimes better at Creative Problem Solving the perform better in certain types of negotiations, because they're not going to give it because they think they deserve it, right?
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Oh, I've met a few of them.
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And entitled, people have a high view of themselves, so they're less likely to have other people take advantage of them. So you know, there are benefits to this, but it's about reining it in. So it doesn't actually cause either disruption and problems in the family or in their future life they're going to and sometimes they won't be aware of it. I mean, I've you know, we've all scene entitled kids. Yeah, we know what an entitled teenager can be like. And it's, it's the one who expects always expects the other friend to do all the work in terms of turning up for something, even though they want the friendship. So you know, they say, Well, we're going to do this, but you've got to do all the extra work, because they're just not thinking.
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So then it's teaching them again, that, you know, that might be very much your wish that you do as little as possible. Totally understand that. But that's not okay. For me, I need you to do more. And I often think that the, the antidote to that kind of thinking, and that kind of way of being of being entitled, is is gratitude. If you're not grateful, then we can't be grateful and entitle endodontist
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at the same time. Absolutely. And that comes into the list of things that I've got as antidotes. There's really no, it's really, really good one, it's one my kids always bring up. They're always saying, you know, gratitude, gratitude, gratitude, it makes me so much happier. And actually the also the antidote, you know, it made me think when you were just talking that if you have a teen who has an entitled friend, it's also about setting boundaries with the entitled friend is a good practice.
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Because I've had that with all of my teens where somebody's you know, stepped over the line, and you just say, Okay, I know, it's really upsetting. And you they you feel undervalued, but actually, it's a way that you can learn what your needs are, and then be able to say back to them not I'm not going to do that.
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Yeah, and maybe you're right, yeah, totally. And maybe nobody's ever said to that teenager. Do you know what?
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That's not all right. I don't like that. Exactly.
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So how do we do it? Amy McCready of positive parenting solutions, summed it up beautifully. The number one expects more, give your kids credit. Expect your team's to make family contributions, we're referring to that. Remember, when we talked about chores, it's not chores, it's family contributions. We're all in a team together. And everybody needs to be doing something for this family. And you need to step up for it. And that's quite hard, because I know, sometimes you look at it. I've talked to lots of parents who said yep, it's just quicker and easier, but I do it.
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And there's resistance because none of them are like we've talked about before none of them are like are gonna go Oh, yeah. Thanks so much for making me for asking me to do
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the scrub the loo. Yeah.
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So grateful for you
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know, it's gonna be resist Yes. But it's how you I think it's how you frame it. And pointing out that it's part of being in a family because then they learn. They just learned about being being a human being and this is what human beings do. Right? Yeah. I love that. That's give up on giving up. So if you say yes, when really you know, you should be saying no. And you give them things which they're begging for. If they have a tantrum, I mean, you might get teenagers with with tantrums too, or they're adults. them so when they when they're, you know, making it very difficult for you and you just say, just say yes to you. We saw that all we're doing is we're teaching them that that horrible stuff. Apogee actually works. Yeah. So we sort of have to grit our teeth and carry on with knowing that that's the right thing to do.
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Yeah.
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And if we can't make that call in the moment, because we've had a crappy day ourselves, or retired, or wherever we are, we don't know what the right answer is. We can just we can always go, I don't know. And come back to me tomorrow.
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Yes, yes. Yeah.
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Oh, you know, I'm not going to buy that right now. So it gives you it gives you a pause, think about how am I going to deal with this, and they can work on their negotiation strategy Exactly, exactly. Hand over the reins. So whenever we rescue our kids from their mistakes, and intervene on their behalf, or smoothing the ways to make things easier for them, we're robbing them of a learning opportunity, where we can help prepare them by role playing this, this sort of skill where you know, if they're having a tricky situation, just get them to really think through how they feel about it, and how they can do deal with it themselves. And we need to be able to sit back.
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And that's we all as parents desperate to rescue our children. Because like you, I love your point, it feels uncomfortable. And you just want it to go away. It was awful.
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Yes. And we're sort of living vicariously through our children. And we have to be able to step back and say, you can coach them. You can say, I can give you ideas, but I can't solve this for you. You we have to sit and think so we're sitting side by side, not across the table from them. Not like the problems in the middle, what you're doing. You're you're sitting next to them and saying the problems in front of both of us. How can we think this through in a way that it will help?
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Yeah, and I'm your support? safe container, but you need to do it yourself?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Here's one of my favorites. Shut down the ATM.
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Oh, yeah, you're very good at this
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is the big one.
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And instant gratification is really King in today's society.
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I talked about this in an episode quite some time ago. And it's been really a game changer for us and our family. And my both my daughters have got allowances and it's purely the money that I totted up, that I would be spending on them anyway. And I just put that into pot. And I put it into their account every week. If you want to hear more about how I've done this, how I get them to negotiate with me all of that stuff. It's in that particular podcast. But the reason for this is a year on for doing it. And I still haven't done a year own from from having done this, one of them who's really quite a profligate spender, who lacks self control over these things.
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It's not a fault. She just sees things as she loves it. She loves spending money on friends, and she's clicked later. And it was when she sat there saying I want some cargo pants. I just don't have any money. And I said, Well, you do. But you just keep spending it. And she finally realized that if she actually did nothing with the money, it would then accumulate and then she bought them and the joy she has when she walks around wearing those pants. Yes.
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Is is. And every single time she and I said that when she bought them. I said so just remember you did that you made that happen by saving your money.
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Yeah. And being focused on what you want to do. And the other thing is, when they do want more money, it's also become where they've now realized that they can earn more. But they have to do things for it. So one of them's really good at ironing, I hadn't really thought about it, but she is she said I like ironing, I can't stand it. So I now pay her per shirt, we looked him up how much the local ironing place would charge per shirt. And it she's getting a fraction of that because she's not a professional and, and it's mine. And she's she gets money per share for my husband shirts, and teaching her really great skill. It's teaching her great skills. And I'll also say the other one, which is that I have an older daughter who's particularly academic, and the younger one is coming up behind.
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And so for the older one, I said, Well, you know, I've looked at how much it costs to pay a tutor. So it's 30 pounds an hour for a tutor of that sort of level. And I said, Well, I would pay you the older daughter 15 pounds and the younger daughter five pounds per hour.
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If she coaches you tutors you in the because they're a year apart. So she can actually coach her in exactly what she needs to know, a year on. And there's incentive for business incentive for both of them. Because if you only do pay the one Yeah, then what? Punishment? Yes. And they both will see my mother. I've talked about that before where my mother would basically make sure that we both had the same we're both on the same page. So they both benefiting. Yeah, brilliant. I think that's brilliant. Yeah. So I think I can be I absolutely love the system and my girls on a regular basis say Mum, this is brilliant. I love it. It's
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great. My daughter actually has started babysitting and the babysitting rates around us, I think is very generous.
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Bye ridiculously generous, hope none other parents are listening. She still appreciates it. But her brother actually has been like, Oh my God, I want some money too. What can I do?
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Once they start seeing?
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You can buy stuff? I wanted to be able to do that, too. So he's he's asking what can I do around the house? Or can I do the you know, decent dog walking? What can I use?
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He's having a think about it.
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But
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yes, money is a really good driver, and you don't want to strip your children have ambition? No. And I think that when they get anything and everything, there's literally no reason for them to be doing things.
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No, no. And yeah, our relationship with money is actually it's not just about the money as
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it is no, no.
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But also, I suppose it would be the last thing I want to say about it is that it's actually helped them focus in on what they can do well, too. So, you know, I would not, I started asking them to clean my car, because that's something I've paid for. And they both hated it. Yeah. So um, what's the point? You know, I can go to the professional car cleaner and get them to do it, you know, I've got the money. But if you can find things that your kids can do well, and it doesn't always have to be about money, but you won't have to spend money on your kids no matter what. So why not give that hand that to them?
00:26:15.328 --> 00:26:37.888
When they're teenagers? And give them some responsibility? For you do once again, you have to go through the discomfort of saying no. So I have had them say, Can you kind of can you give me a bit more money this week? Or can you forward me the amount? And mostly it's no, no, yeah, you have to wait, you live with that discomfort. You live with the fact that you already spend that money so that you understand how it works? Yeah.
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:49.049
Because we like being rewarded for what we do as well. You know, there's the whole discussion of should we pay for chores in the house, that kind of thing. But I really love the way you frame it, because I think it's really incentivizing for them and teaches them responsibility.
00:26:49.049 --> 00:26:49.500
That's great.
00:26:49.798 --> 00:27:20.669
Yes. And that sense that we have trusted them with their own money, yes, is a compliment. Yes, that's really true. Right. So it's actually actually handing over some responsibility. So they step up with their responsibility. And then the final one, which is to unsend, to the universe, so making clear that they need to be grateful for things they've got. And gratitude, as you said earlier, is is is just the foundation of you know, you can't be entitled, and grateful
00:27:20.700 --> 00:28:00.720
No, you can't, I don't think you can be that you can't have those two feelings in your in your body. Because gratitude, and we have it, we have chemical reactions of feeling grateful, if we do it in a way like we can't, again, we've we've talked about this before, we can't tell our kids you know, you should be grateful for that. That's not what I mean. It's just teaching them and encouraging them and maybe doing it as a little practice if they're up for it, you know, or modeling it is maybe a better way if they if they don't want if they think it's a bit weird, but that you know, you're showing your appreciation and sitting with the feeling of feeling grateful you can do that a bedtime or whatever, so that they it becomes part of their embodied rather than a thought.
00:28:00.809 --> 00:28:09.720
And the research is clear that people who have an attitude of gratitude in life are happier, less depressed, take stress in their stride, and they see life with healthy optimism.
00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:13.200
That is really true.
00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:32.309
And it's it's a can be a game changer. Yeah, you can have everything in the world in a material thing or in any respect, you can have everything and you still don't have to be asked about it. I mean, you can you can be grateful you can be giving you can be generous, you can be appreciative, that you know, the one thing doesn't have to they don't have to go together
00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:34.799
now completely.
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This I think this is the best way to finish off this. This bit about entitlement is all about gratitude. Does any of this resonate with you? Do you disagree with us? It's that's, we're happy to hear about it.
00:28:45.509 --> 00:29:09.630
We'd love to hear from you. You can email help at teenagers untangle.com. And if you've enjoyed the episode, then why not help other parents tell your friends, tell the school subscribe to our podcast. And it would be a massive bonus if you left a review. You can also find everything at our own website, which is www dot teenager's untangled.com There are links to every episode blog reviews, easy ways to contact both of us.
00:29:09.809 --> 00:29:11.910
Susie has her own website which is
00:29:12.298 --> 00:29:15.989
a mindful hyphen Life dot code at UK.
00:29:16.558 --> 00:29:19.229
Brilliant right that's it for now. Goodbye. Bye bye for now.
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You
