Transcript
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Hello, I'm Rachel Richards former BBC correspondent parenting coach, a mother of two teenagers and two oldest daughters.
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Hi, I'm Suzy Asli, mindfulness instructor and psychotherapist and mother of three teenagers. Two of them are twin
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Suzy, you've had a blissful holiday away from your teens whilst they were with their dad. How did that feel?
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Brilliant? Yeah, no long time coming, you deserve every minute of it. We'll talk later about what you do when your teen doesn't want to go and stay with the other parent. But first, tell us about our latest bit of feedback.
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Yeah, we've had a really lovely comment from Andrea, who contacted us saying her daughter is suffering with anxiety. And she's off work for the summer. So he's been listening to all of our podcasts and using them to help start a plan, which is brilliant. And here's what she said, the anxiety podcast was fab, even the bit at the beginning, when you spoke about talking about porn to a child and said, I need a few moments of your time, it will be over quickly and you may squirm. Yeah, that was me on the school. I paused on it. And it's a really helpful way of putting it. And I've invited my friends to follow you. Amazing. Thank you so much.
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Yes, that's brilliant. I mean, we don't advertise at all. So word of mouth. And reviews of specific episodes are incredibly important for getting the word out, we've updated the website to make it much more user friendly. So you can post reviews there search for specific topics. It's not a brilliant search facility, but it's their contact us easily.
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And we even have a blog. Now if you sign up to receive emails, we'll keep you updated, but promise you no spam. Now, helping teenagers make good decisions about drinking and drugs can be a huge challenge for parents, especially if you're uncomfortable about setting limits that you distinctly remember violating in your teenage years. Tricky. It's a really tricky one. Parents often struggle with limit setting looking for reassurance or permission from someone else, that it's something they should do. And I've experienced this myself, because I hosted a few parties. And it's quite frustrating, because I'll mention alcohol and put my position out and I get nothing back. You know, the occasional time I'll get a parent saying, Oh, I you know, I agree with this or pushing back hard, which is actually very welcome. So I think one of the problems we've got is this fear of being seen to be the boring person. Yeah.
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And Dante's mentioned it, funnily enough, in the Divine Comedy all the way back then when he talks about the very first place you go when you're going into hell. And there's an anti chamber and in that anti chamber is a group of people.
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And these people are there because they basically sat on the fence, they're anti lives, they weren't prepared to stand up for anything or speak out.
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And, and he saw that as as something terrible. And their punishment was basically that they were never named, and they became nameless people and faceless people. Didn't realize but but the point being that, you know, when you're not taking a position, you're still taking a position. Absolutely. You take a position. Yes.
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I think as parents we come sometimes we sort of regress back to, you know, being in the school yard, ourselves, and peer pressure, which is not helpful for our kids. And I
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do feel the pressure, I feel kind of oh, well, maybe I should have a little bit of this. But then when do I stop and and it's you don't want your child to be to be known as the boring kid, you
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know, but silence is is difficult. I've experienced that as well. People not coming with their, with their opinions out of field for whatever reason is is difficult to negotiate.
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Yes, yeah. So we understand. And we've all experienced this. So let's start by considering what we're actually talking about when we say drugs. Now I hear the word.
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And I think about things people smoke vape, or you know that you get on a street corner from a dealer. I remember going to Brixton and some guy stepping out from the dark and go, Do you want some Charlie? Scare scared and ran? But you know, you know, things? Is that right? What about caffeine? Is that a drug?
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Yeah. And there's medicinal drugs. I mean, yes, it's a massive, massive
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catchment of stuff, isn't it? And there's and there's a huge addiction problem with medicinal drugs as well painkillers in America, which we've heard a lot about more recently, you know, performance enhancing drugs. And this is confusing for adults. So you can imagine that for a teenager and understanding what really is going on with these drugs, which are the good ones, which are the bad ones, unless, you know, you say it's illegal, or it's not legal, then that will give them some guidance, but that's it.
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And then very little is actually spoken about, well, what are the long term effects? And what are the
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issues we're talking about? Everything has drugs like exercises called a drugs, t li or work and then anything that you can become addicted to, I guess
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anything, but also the you know, when we look at what's happening in schools at the moment, and I know it's prevalent here, the US South Africa, I you know, I'm sure it's all over the place. There's been In a big upswing and people being diagnosed with conditions, and one of the answers is drugs, you know, so if you have ADHD, there are drugs you can take that help you concentrate, I don't want to undermine anybody's choices of giving their child a drug because I knew it can be absolutely life changing for these people. But the point is, how do you then help your child distinguish between something that's genuinely been prescribed for a specific condition? And something that they're using to help? Something they're feeling?
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Yeah, I guess it's illegal and illegal drugs, isn't it and recreational and medicinal and those kinds of definitions, and I think
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there are drugs everywhere. So you know, I'm not working now. But I used to present for a TV station and I had to watch start work at three o'clock every morning. And you know, one night, I got so sick of never seeing my boyfriend, who's now my husband. And you know, week after week went by when I go to bed at six o'clock in the evening, it was really boring. So I went over to his house cooked a meal, and we had a bottle of champagne. And I'm not a drinker, really, I mean, I drink a bit, but I wasn't really a big drinker. So I basically went to bed drunk and woke up drunk. I think I felt drunk anyway. And I thought, I'm in so much trouble, I have an entire shift, where I'm on live on air doing news, and I'm writing the news I'm reacting to this is really so much trouble. So I just did everything I could to kind of project myself and look excited and happy in a week because I was very tired. And at the end of my shift, the managing editor had called me into his office. So I did the walk of shame across the the news floor, which was open plan to his glass office and thought, this is the end of my career.
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And I sat down and he said, I said, you asked me and he said, Yeah, what happened out there?
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And I thought, Okay, I'm not going to answer that question until they really understand what he means. And then he jumped in and said, because that was amazing. You were electric, jumping. That's what I want, that you were so alive, and I really connected with you. And when he finished this, I just got up and left and looked around and thought I can't get drunk every night. And then looked across and thought, Okay, now Now I understand why people are taking cocaine. Yes. Because I've heard a lot about it. And a lot of people have offered me I've never taken it in my life.
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And there are a lot of people in finance and media. Lily Allen sings about it in everything.
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Everyone's at it. It's it's very, very, it's out there.
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Yeah, many of these drugs are available. So
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I mean, I've worked as a musician for years, you know, anything that's to do with performance, people want to calm themselves down, change their state to be better on stage in whatever capacity that is. Get rid of the nerves. Yeah. Alcohol and drugs, you know, common drugs is really, sadly, quite normal.
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Yes. And it's a bit weird that society has said, alcohol is fine. When we know that a percentage of the population will abuse it turn aggressive, become alcoholics.
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It's also a problem. But because it's legal, we know what the percentage of alcohol is in the drinks. And we know we have enough information about what the impact is. The long term impact is, however,
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yeah, I think Pavarotti used to drink a large glass of port every time he onstage before we went onstage, and I'm just imagining if that had been snorting cocaine, that wouldn't have been a cute little story.
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Exactly. It's very different. But it's kind of what you gotta know. The reason I'm asking why is because that's what teenagers will be thinking.
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They'll be like, Well, I didn't get it, you know, everywhere.
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And anyway. So as parents, we need to decide, firstly, what do I think about drug use, alcohol, vapes smoking, all these other illicit drugs, you know, and vapes is that the nicotine in them is actually really strong.
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Yeah. And why have I taken that approach? Yeah, and you can need and
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you need to, we need we need to know where we stand, which is really difficult when we don't always have the information. Because our teams are really listening, even though they roll their eyes sight and don't look like they're listening. I mean, I've countless examples of my own kids. You know, you say something, or you share an opinion. And, you know, maybe two years later, I've heard my eldest, you know, telling somebody else my opinion, and I'm like, Oh, my God, actually let those listening and he's remembers it, you know, they are they want they want some guidelines to lean up against or, or ignore to have something clear.
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That's a very good point. Because all the research I did said that, um, there was one particular woman where he went into five different schools, and ask teenagers in every one of those schools about how they have what do you want your parents to do?
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Do you want them to have a stance on this? Every single childhood? Yes, I want my parents to have a stance. I want them to tell me what it is really interesting. That makes sense. Yes. And whether they were drug users or not, they wanted to know
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Yes, because I think when our kids or anybody are in that situation where you're standing over for a decision, you know, do you want some or not because they will be offered however much we hope they won't they will cause they may be at the back of Their minds have our voice going, don't do it in that moment, because they do hear they need they need something to fall back on. They might make that choice. Yes. They had to not have it at all, I think is not helpful.
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I think that's absolutely spot on. And so the things to consider, first of all, why is why are we using this drug in the first place? I mean, take, you know, this, this topic is sprawling because there are so many drugs and I'm not going to, you know, we can zone in on little, little areas pockets, but the truth is, for all of them, there's a reason.
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Yes. So it could be just recreational. Oh, it looks fun.
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It could be anxiety, it's easier to tell someone Hey, I'm tripping out rather than I've got problems. Yes, absolutely. I need support.
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Yeah, I mean, I think like we've talked about with alcohol and some of the other topics we've talked about, you know, kids are curious, teenagers are curious. And drugs a massively glamorized, you know, it's a cool thing. It's fun. And they want, you know, they're curious. And then I think there's what that's that side of it. And of course, there are some drugs that are hugely addictive from the first time you take them. But then there's the other side of it, which is people escaping from things that are difficult. And that's when you sort of dive into the addictive side, you know, the whole world of addiction, which is a really huge dark place.
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And it's, it's, it doesn't just happen overnight, it's hardest, but you need to be on top of it. And it can be the, you know, the they abuse the substance, whether it's marijuana, they try it and think, Oh, actually, I found it easy to go into school today, even though I was anxious, and then they'll want they'll get to the point where they, they have to take use it before they can do anything. That's how this can can Yes.
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There's an amazing man who I've been reading and falling for a while. And he's, he's kind of changing the paradigm on addiction. He's called Gabor Ma Tei. Amazing, I think he's Bulgarian. And he he's done loads of research with homeless people and all sorts of things. And he's written numerous books. And his stance, as I understand it, and in a nutshell, is that there are lots of things in our society that there's lots of trauma for many people and trauma is, is a word that's bandied around a lot.
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Now, it's quite trendy. And I think a lot of people think of trauma, as you know, being in in a war zone, or, you know, having been in a sexual abuse for years and years, and that is trauma, that's massive trauma, but there's also smaller trauma, you know, people's parents putting up when you're young, that can be really traumatic. And these things sit in our bodies, and we and they feel uncomfortable. And so to not feel that discomfort, we turn to substances, because that's feels nice. So if a teenager, for example, is trying out of curiosity, because it's fine, their mates are doing it.
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And then they go, Oh, well, that felt really nice. I don't didn't feel that horrible pain and discomfort that I often feel.
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Can I do that? Again, I want to do that, again, I want to do it again. And that can be a way of escalating. So we need to keep our eyes open and teach them how to sit with discomfort.
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Yes, yes, absolutely. So there are techniques that can be come on to, and the strength and the provenance of drugs is actually a very important point. And this will come into all of this discussion, which is, it's much better to inform your teenager about drugs, than to ignore the discussion, I think people are quite and if you don't know about the various drugs, even if you think you know about the various drugs, it's really important you do become educated, there's a website called Frank, which I will put on our podcast notes, which is created by the NHS, which gives the drugs and it doesn't just say don't take drugs, it actually explains what the drugs are, what the effects could be, what the side effects can be, so that you can inform yourself, because things have changed. So even if you were a drug user, when you were younger, and it all seemed fine, don't assume that things are still the same, because drugs are changed dramatically. So this coming back to this strength and provenance. The huge problem is that drugs can come with the risk of overdose, which we were talking a little bit earlier, before we came on air. And Susie said, with alcohol is a very low chance that you're going to drink some stuff, unless you take you know, 20 shots of vodka when you could you know, we have seen situations with hazing where kids have done unusual that is not Yeah, whereas with drugs, it really can be a problem. And one of the reasons for that is because we have a variability in body chemistry, there's an S curve of response.
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So I did study pharmaceuticals briefly at university. And the whole thing about our bodies is some people aren't highly responsive. Some people have almost no response. So there's your own body chemistry that's critically important and you know, drug prescriptions are not they're not a science suit. So because you're dealing with somebody so you'll look at somebody's weight and their body Chemistry, but again, you're still quite trying to, you know, it needs tweaking, and then there's that, and then you're buying the drugs from someone, and if they're illegal drugs, or even if they are legal, I mean, people are buying vapes from stores where, you know, when they've been raided, they found that they don't comply with with with government requirements.
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And the reason that's a big issue is, so when my daughter was given a talk about this, where they were showing a video of these kids, you know, making some drugs, and they had powder all over this table, and they were cutting it all together.
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And she said, you know, it was disgusting. The conditions weren't sanitary, I mean, you think about the pill factory, when you're actually producing pharmaceuticals. And then you look at what's been done in some of these, you know, rooms, where people are cutting drugs together. And then they just shove them all into a pill press, and then out pops a pill that looks
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like it's a prop pharmaceuticals terrifying because you have no idea what's in it, you don't know what's in it,
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and you don't know, when you get sad bag of pills. I'm just imagining this, I've never had one. But let's say there are four pills in it for kids, you know, the each of those kids might get completely different doses, which is why we've had these stories where, you know, this one person out of a group dies, yes, because they the person who had all the drug, and then the other ones had was nothing.
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Yeah, it's awful.
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It's awful. Um, somebody remembers, just remember, I was talking years ago about trying to help kids, because I think that happens a lot at festivals, you know, the people at festivals and just handing these things out. To encourage children, if they're, if they are really insisting that they want to try it, which is obviously not ideal at all. But to cut it up and just take a small part of it, because it's less likely to
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really enjoy about that,
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that's likely to be fatal, I think is the idea. If you do get a dodgy one, then you know, you'll probably be very ill. But interesting advice. I mean, my my eldest has just been to a music festival this summer, and I took the opportunity knowing we were talking today to talk to him and his girlfriend last night, and I have permission to share. And they are thankfully and I praise them, well, massively for it, they they're not into drugs at all, they're not interested. And they are everywhere, as we know, they were offered, they could have got, you know, loads. And they chose not to. And so my question to them was, you know, why do you choose not to really?
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What is it that's making you not getting in the interesting size?
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And, and my son is quite black and white and how he thinks, and he's just like, well, that's stupid, you know, the consequences are possible consequences are awful. So why would you, his girlfriend is is really hard working and wants to do lots of things in her life.
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And she's just not prepared to take the consequences of that not, you know, if something bad happening. And then we talked about how their friendship group in the classic their friendship groups, not into it. And they both agreed that if they were, then it would be really easy to go down that road. It's almost like lucky.
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I mean, this is a such an interesting point. And it is really important. It's important, because it normalizes if your group like these things, if you're your family, or using drugs, it normalizes it, and this is what everyone's doing.
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And even Kate Moss when she was interviewed on desert island, in a famous model, said, you know, everyone was taking Coke, I got a photo taken of me snorting it, and then it was put in the papers. And I thought it was really unfair, because everybody else was doing it. But I was the person who was shamed. So if everyone's that said, I have a friend whose son was in a group who were expelled from their school for doing ketamine. And he wasn't and I said, Why weren't you expelled? He said, Because I don't touch it. And I said, really? So this is your these are your close friends. He said, yep. And I said, Well, why not? And he said, because I did the research, because it on it, and realized how damaging it can be. So I haven't touched it.
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Yes. Amazing. So it's education. It's education.
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And actually, my son's girlfriend said, she thinks, you know, when they're educated, and they both seem to know quite a lot about the bad effects. But I was really impressed. It was great. But she said in her education, we need to be taught more, you know, the bad consequences, you know, the facts, and then people would aren't, you know, I remember scare campaigns when we were younger was it just say no exam or green jail? I still have those images of these, you know, heroin addicts on billboards.
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But I think what's really
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interesting is one way we can model this for our teenagers is for example, you get a pharmaceutical, you open the pack, there's a massive leaflet inside that pack, which will have all the tests that have been done on the pharmaceutical, what the side effects are the known side effects and the possible side effects. And just go through that with your teenager and say this is a known drug. And this is the range of side effects that can happen and you're buying something you might potentially given something from somebody at a party Yeah, who you If you don't know, or if it's your friend, they'll go it's fine mate will who who who did they get that drug from? And just start questioning. And I thought what was really interesting was you said at this festival, there was a ketamine term
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I know less. I was told there was a ketamine tent where with with prices outside.
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So, ketamine is a horror strikes. Again, I know a bit about ketamine just because there have been a number of kids expelled from schools for using ketamine. I don't really understand why people would go down that path. And the reason I say that is because my 27 year old stepdaughter, nos, two people she said in their 20s, who are incontinent, because they were using ketamine when they were younger, and it's a side effect is a known side effect of using ketamine. Now, ketamine is being experimented on by the pharmaceutical industry, they're trying to see whether it can have an impact on people who are suffering from depression, and they are, this is a one off dose. Okay, so the point being that you can say, oh, it has this great impact.
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Well, let's let the farmers let's let them have a look at really, absolutely. They're not talking about taking it regularly, or, and they've got control doses. Don't start being your own pharmacist,
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I imagine it's easier to access or something something, you know, pragmatic, that means it's now being put in a tent, with prices. I find that just on but I think they could have got whatever they wanted really.
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Brilliant.
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Yeah. And talking about the comparison between now and being younger. Now, I have already said I'm not a drug taker. So you know, you could say I don't know what I'm talking about.
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What is actually known is that, in the past decade, the European Monetary Center for Drugs and Drug Addiction found a 76% increase in people entering treatment for cannabis addiction. In the US about three in 10, people who use marijuana have cannabis use disorder. And part of the problem is that the the cannabis that people are smoking now is far more potent.
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So it's actually and we've seen this creep in everything.
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Alcohol is far more alcoholic.
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Now you know, the wine that people are drinking, I've seen the percentages going up. So the thing to remember is, you know, when you see these people smoking weed back in the 60s is not the same stuff.
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That's a really, really important actually. Yeah,
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so this is something that we we really need to get our heads around. And the level of the worst area for psychosis, and the whole of Europe is in South London, where they're smoking skunk. That's shocking. And yeah, and it's because it's so and psychosis is when you lose contact with reality, delusions, hearing voices, all this stuff,
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we live by a park and you can smell it in a summer. In our garden, it stinks. And it's you can smell, it's really strong, it catches your throat, and you just think, you know, smoking that everyday, that is not going to be good for you well,
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nature have found that it has an impact on green matter. And what they found was that the things that that really, really impact, whether it affects your brain, our frequency, strength, and the age at which you begin using the drug. Okay. So the reason that matters is because a teenager's brain, as we say every almost every single episode is being rewired very aggressively, really actively. And if you start playing with the pleasure receptors at that age, and you're giving them drugs, and they can see that this is a path to lessening their anxiety or whatever. There's a very, very strong feedback loop that happens much more quickly in a teenager than it might in an adult. So the longer you can delay any experimentation in this IV at all, the better.
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Yeah, and the other thing is, I've had lots of conversations with my kids about this. There's an impact upstream, that you know, these drugs are the either they're in illicit drug, they're being traded somewhere. There are kids who are being used to, you know, carry these drugs.
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This is not something where you can say, Oh, it's fine. You know, I'm just buying, you know, it's guilt free. It's not guilt free.
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No, my two are not post mine. I talked to you yesterday that was mentioned when when one of them was being explained about drugs at school once you know that there's a whole industry that's awful, and there are, you know, children being abused and women being abused and, and that made quite an impact. That that kind of information makes a huge impact on kids.
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Yeah. So talking about experimentation is a slippery slope. Parents have an idea about what it means if they say, oh, you know, I know you'll experiment. No, no, don't don't even Give them the sense that you think they're going to experiment, I need to be quite clear about it. You know, if you don't want your child taking drugs, you say, I don't expect you to take drugs. That said, we are in a difficult situation, because what you want to do is you want to know that if your child does, yes, they should come back to you. Yes. So you can keep the leash short. You say I don't, you know, you can't do not use these substances. But if you ever get into any tricky situation, call me and there'll be an amnesty.
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And wherever you are, whatever you're doing, whatever time it is, I will come and you don't have to keep
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making the right decision. Yeah. And I will not do it no punishment for making the right decision. Yeah.
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And then what the kids see is they see that you care about their health and welfare more than your hotline,
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and a friend of theirs gets into trouble. Yes, it can go really quickly. And it can be really, really terrifying for anybody involved. If they think someone's in trouble, that you are the person that I can call my mom, she'll come.
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Yeah. And there was last month, there was a story in the paper where this young 16 year old girl overdosed on MDM. And apart with friends, they delayed calling an ambulance for two hours, because they didn't want to get into trouble. And she died. This is why we need to, we need to have the conversation saying you know, just know that there will be an amnesty because we need to get you out of horrible situations.
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And the classic, you know, make a signal on your phone. If you do this specific emoji or two kisses, then I will call you and rant at you come on, come home, come home, and then the kid has to, you know, so that they have a way out, offering a way out.
00:26:41.190 --> 00:27:19.769
And the question often comes up, should you tell them about your past use. And when I read around the subject, they said the rule of thumb is to really think twice if your child is asking you a direct question about your own use, because it's almost guaranteed that any question they're asking you is really about them and the choices they're facing. So you're better off avoiding all of that. Not sitting there saying, oh, yeah, I use them. It was fine. Yeah, you need to you need to keep clear of that. And just say no, I know that that everything's changed. Now, the potency is different. This is what the law says, or this is what the impact could be when you educate them.
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:25.710
Yeah. Because when again, faced for that decision, would you like a pill or not?
00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:33.029
With the back of their head of thinking all mum did loads, it was probably fine. That will maybe be their choice. Yeah.
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:36.750
It's tricky, though. Because we don't you know, we don't want to lie to our kids. But you can you can skirt around it.
00:27:36.838 --> 00:28:15.778
Yes, absolutely. And, I mean, one of the most challenging aspects of addiction, for example, drug use, and it is knowing it's a progressive disease. So it's the early warning signs. How do we know? So one of the anti Mood swings are quite normal. So that I saw a list I think it was the Betty Ford Clinic there's losing interest in activities they want to enjoy dropping old friends for a new group acting despondent, aggressive or angry sleeping more than usual breaking rules, exhibiting physical changes like Sudden weight loss, frequent nosebleeds bloody or watery eyes shakes or tremors. I mean, you know, that last list that yeah, is yeah, that would be clear. But the rest of it, I'm like,
00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:44.309
Yeah. And, and also, you know, adding into that trust, because it's so important to have the communication like, you know, if you are worried, they're not asking, you're taking drugs, you're taking the right, or, you know, there's that would be really, really obvious, but trusting, okay, this, I've given you the information, I trust you to make the right choices, and not, you know, not badgering them in a way that they feel watched or harassed in a way that will make them shut down.
00:28:44.549 --> 00:29:06.660
Yeah, absolutely. And the thing you shouldn't do is just ignore problems if they start drinking, or smoking and experimenting and just say, Oh, it's just a phase, because this is the difficulty it'll actually can get out of control very quickly. So the important thing is to have the open and honest discussions, and you can never intervene too soon. You know, if you see something happening, engage, yeah. And
00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:14.400
it doesn't have to be a big heavy conversation. It could just be you know, I noticed you how you doing what's going on? You're right.
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:29.789
I think that's so spot on. Because that's what I saw is is actually rather than making it into a massive intervention, yeah. Have the casual conversation, say you know, is are you are you are you feeling bad? Yeah. How are you feeling about life? Yeah. How are you doing? Yes, absolutely.
00:29:30.269 --> 00:29:59.670
So, the main factors that contribute to a heightened risk for addiction, family history of substance abuse, I mean, kids with first degree relatives who are alcoholics have eight times the risk of developing alcoholism age of first use and and that then leads into cravings and tolerance, you know, high tolerance of the drum quite quickly, and the surrounding so again, if there are people at home who are using drugs or alcohol or or smoking vaping they it's easier for them to get hold of this stuff.
00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:12.569
Yeah. And if it's the really addictive stuff, I mean, all the all the things, you know, we hear I mainly from the States, you know, the opiates are awful trouble with that I'm sure it's here as well.
00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:19.890
It's so quickly addictive. But again, you're more likely to have a huge addiction, if you've already got underlying things that you're trying to work out, you know, emotionally,
00:30:20.069 --> 00:30:29.549
I think that's spot on. And so people with mental health problems are far more likely to abuse substances to try and get away from that.
00:30:26.039 --> 00:31:07.950
So it doesn't really it's trying to just engage. Interestingly, with my older girls, and the girls that have now, our policy has been keep them poor. So strict about it, I can't remember the episode, but I did talk about giving them an allowance. And that allowance was basically me adding up all the money I spend on their clothing, not school clothing, but other clothes, treats anything like that. And I basically packaged it and said, right, that's your money. Now, I don't want to have to, and it's great, because I didn't have to what I just say, if they say I need money for this, I say well dip into your own account. Yeah.
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:31.890
And my kids love it. Because they say it's really awkward if you get bought clothes from a pet by parent, and you don't really like them, and they've spent a lot of money, and I get the chance to make choices. So it's been very, very effective for both the younger kids. But also, it just meant that my older kids even said to me, you know, we just didn't have any money. Yeah. So the choice was, Do I buy these lovely clothes?
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:36.000
Or spend my money on drugs?
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:37.920
Yeah. And the thing is, you know, how are they getting hot?
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.109
How are they paying for the drugs otherwise? And I know babysitting,
00:31:40.109 --> 00:31:47.220
my daughter started babysitting. She gets paid way too much. So don't let them
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:50.880
I thought you're gonna say that she gets given the drugs?
00:31:51.390 --> 00:31:53.130
Oh, no, thankfully, no, not that I'm aware of.
00:31:55.410 --> 00:32:28.109
So I think also, you know, what's portrayed in films, online music, just check what what are they accessing? What you're trying to do is look at the world that the environment they're living in, in? Is this an environment, which is very, you know, comfortable with drugs. And I think I think some of the urban landscapes can be more drug friendly. So I've had arguments with parents online, where, and these are supposed to be friends of mine, where they just laugh at me and say, Oh, you're just too uptight about drugs. They can come around my house. I've got some great drugs for them.
00:32:28.109 --> 00:32:36.779
And they want them and I just, I just say, Well, no, thanks. I like my pant kind of parenting more. Thank you. But there is that attitude with some parents?
00:32:34.380 --> 00:32:39.359
Yeah, just check the environment. They're in what what are they accessing online?
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.099
What games do they play? You know,
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:46.829
and they are everywhere. So even if you think you live in a small village in the middle of nowhere, so you're right there everywhere.
00:32:47.069 --> 00:32:51.990
Now you discover your child is taking drugs, don't panic. It's always the first answer, isn't it?
00:32:51.990 --> 00:33:04.920
Don't panic, make sure that you engage you lean in, be supportive of your child, try to understand why they may be being bullied stressed about school.
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:30.089
You know, they'll talk more openly if they feel that they have a relationship with you, where you're trying to support and help them rather than accuse them or shame. Yes. And do your homework. So if you discover that there is access to drugs, or they are using drugs, the thing to do is go to the sprink website or any of the other websites find out as much as you can about the drug, and then just say to the kid, you know, so. Okay, so you're using it?
00:33:30.089 --> 00:33:36.539
Can you explain to me what the benefits are? What are you getting out of it? Yeah. Okay.
00:33:33.569 --> 00:33:38.910
And do you know, all the downside is, you know, the strength of what you're using?
00:33:39.089 --> 00:33:47.430
Do you know who you're sourcing it from? Do you know what the long term impact is of it?
00:33:42.269 --> 00:33:56.609
Because even if you if you just ask the questions, rather than telling them, and they can't answer you, you just say, well, perhaps, you know, you should really be thinking this through because it could impact your health. Yeah,
00:33:56.608 --> 00:34:13.139
I think that's a great question. What how does it help? What's it giving you? Why are you doing it? What's what's, what's the payoff food? Because we don't do anything without a payoff. What? What's your payoff from doing that? How does it make you feel and and can we maybe maybe not, you know, access that in a different way, doing some sort of other activity? Yeah. And we
00:34:13.139 --> 00:34:52.860
talked about vaping in one of our previous episodes, and it's really interesting, because I saw that I think it's the FDA tried to ban all jewel products, Jewel products or the the vapes that are quite strong. So my daughter was going to buy one and she was told by the newsagent, that is not the way to stop smoking, because the amount of nicotine in it is way higher than the cigarettes you were using. And a lot of vapes are but there's now a building body of evidence that there's some real problems with vaping. So, you know, once again, I put some stuff on our Instagram account, you know, with with the that I found on Medscape, which is circulated amongst medical professionals.
00:34:49.409 --> 00:34:54.960
So, you know, if anybody wants a bit more backup on that we have the information.
00:34:55.320 --> 00:35:19.739
I actually had a conversation with my one of my 14 year olds the other day about vape and And he's you know, he's appalled at how corrupt the vaping industry is, you know, at the age of 14, he's really aware that they are being completely scammed. And that it's you know, he's like, like, ma'am, if a 40 year old was giving up smoking, they're not going to want like a strawberry fizz flavor. It's for us, isn't it? And they see it.
00:35:19.829 --> 00:35:31.679
Yes. And that's your most powerful I we've had feedback from people saying that when they have talked to their kids, their teenagers about vaping having listened to our episode, the thing that really hit home was that they're being manipulated. Yeah,
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:35.489
he hated it. He was kind of like they're trying to get us mama don't like
00:35:35.489 --> 00:36:01.019
it. Yeah, what self respecting 30 year olds? So yeah, so what sort of experience have you had with drugs? Are you a former or current drug user who feels relaxed and confident about your teens using or are you completely opposed to any forms of substance use for modification of mood? We'd genuinely love to hear your different opinions on the matter? Yes, absolute really.
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:05.699
I'm, you know, this is a massive, sprawling topic, and I struggled really found it hard, trying to pin down yes,
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.889
there's so many different perspectives based on so much, you know, history background, it's, we'd love to hear
00:36:10.949 --> 00:36:20.760
Yeah, so many different drugs as well. If you found our podcast useful, do us a favor, click subscribe or even review us and tell your friends.
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:37.320
Our website now has everything in one place. So do feel free to rummage around there and message us with any of your questions or tips or topics to cover. You can also reach us via our Facebook group or Instagram. We read everything. Now, Suze, back to your holiday. It was great.
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:51.570
Without your kid. Yeah. And your kids went to visit their dad, dad. Yes. Now without divulging anything too personal. Have you ever had to tackle? What is a very common problem, which is when the team decides that they actually they don't want to go and see the other parent?
00:36:51.630 --> 00:36:56.039
Yep. Definitely.
00:36:51.630 --> 00:36:59.309
Yeah, I think my situation has been complicated. I'm sure that it's complicated for everybody.
00:37:00.480 --> 00:39:01.860
But I mean, their dad lives abroad. And one of them got it into his head, help us help to have in his head, which country he should live in, we're at a very young age. So that was very difficult, a very difficult time that came up a few times. Maybe slightly different from living down the road, and I don't want to go and visit, that has also been the case, not the living down the road bit, but not wanting to visit. And that is very difficult, because basically, I think, if you're trying to co parent, and you're looking at the long term picture, then really, as a parent, you want your kids to have a good relationship with both parents, because that is the best thing for their health now, and well, depending on what the issue is the why they don't want to go now. But for their long term, you're looking at the bigger picture. It's better for the for the kids, if they can have a good relationship with both parents. And I think often we because divorce is messy, difficult, often, even if when we try and make it not, there is often a sense of sort of, you know, if we're really honest, a little bit of satisfaction that, oh, they like me more, or you know, when a parent, we're human beings, you know, and there's usually some sort of problem as to why you're not married anymore. But if we can rise above that, and you know, ask our higher selves, what's the best approach here, then that's probably a better way of trying to encourage them to to keep keep, keep good relations with the other parent. And again, it's all about communication, I would say, you know, communication, what's the problem? Why don't you want to what's the issue? And hopefully they can, they can help with that. And also the idea that it's probably temporary. So, you know, kids have different developmental phases. So sometimes a boy needs to be with their dad more. Sometimes a girl needs to be with their dad more, you know, there are different developmental phases. So
00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:24.210
that's a really interesting point. So you might actually, because, because one of the things you get with teenagers is they decide, I've heard, and I've read that they can think I want to be with a parent who has fewer rules. Oh, yeah. So that's one of those key cornerstones. And it must feel very tricky to navigate something like that.
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:34.019
Yes, yes. I want to be where it's more fun. But I also think there's an element of of usefulness and that I don't think it's just fun because Because teenagers aren't stupid.
00:39:34.019 --> 00:40:16.739
They also as you know, you've mentioned lots of times they they like boundaries, they don't like just being left to do nothing. Well, sometimes they do. But I think it's more linked to this feeling of freedom. So when they get to a certain age, they just kind of want to be left alone, or they want to just they want to be trusted to be left alone. And if you know if you're if one of the parents is constantly you know, in their face badgering them, they might not like that they might want to. And then because if you have two different homes, it's different, they then have an if you live in the same home, you know, you can have those kinds of conflicts, but there isn't an alternative home. So they have to suck it up and stay there, or make a big break and go somewhere completely different.
00:40:16.739 --> 00:40:32.789
But that's a whole different story. Whereas if there are two homes, there is also almost like an another option in their minds, I can go to this other option. And if there's a parent who's, you know, parenting in a way that doesn't suit that particular kid, then they immediately go, Well, I'm gonna do the other one.
00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:47.969
And they perhaps can't see the other complications involved in living in the other place. Because, you know, if one of them is a place where they didn't spend as much time then they don't see know the reality of a day to day because we're always on our best behaviors. Weekend, for example.
00:40:47.969 --> 00:41:01.469
Absolutely. And then the question is new, do we let them go and experience that themselves and see what that's like? And then always have the door open saying, come back whenever? Do we let them go and say it's just a phase? Or can we do that? Because it's actually really
00:41:01.469 --> 00:41:13.199
painful. I was gonna say that sounds very, really, really funny. Because you must be struggling with a sense of being rejected, and fearful that you're going to lose them forever. Yeah. And I don't know how I deal
00:41:13.199 --> 00:42:03.929
with yeah, I've had, I've had it the other way, where I have sort of, massively encouraged to go. And then also the other way, where there's been the question of where do I want to live, it's been slightly different. That's, I won't go into that. Now, that's been a bit different. But it's, it's kind of that word that I really like as well, nudging you nudging and trying to sort of be a safe space for all the stuff that might come up, and then taking care of yourself. Because if you're the one who the kid is not wanting to live with, that really hurts. So finding a space to talk to somebody else about that, and not, you know, clinging on to the kid and in a way that is not helpful for them, because it's not easy for them either. Well, perhaps
00:42:03.929 --> 00:42:37.559
I mean, I looked at the relate website, which has a really nice list of questions for the parent, who either the parent who's got the child where the child wants to stay with them, or the parent who has found that the child doesn't want to the teenager doesn't want to go live with them. And they were saying, you know, it's good to have a casual conversation about well, what was the last visit? Like? What did you like most about it? Was there anything that didn't work for you? And what could the team suggest to make it feel better?
00:42:37.590 --> 00:42:40.050
Yeah, absolutely.
00:42:37.590 --> 00:42:51.300
Have a conversation with your with your kid and that they're often I don't know that they can be quite black and white. So sometimes, sometimes the reason can be seem really crazy simple.
00:42:45.960 --> 00:43:29.820
Like if, for example, if it's if it's your kid who's saying I want to go live with the other parent, ouch, ouch, painful. Sit down, say, you know, what do you like about being with the other parent? What? What is nice about it? And then what don't you like about being here and try and be as open as possible? So that's the whole goal. Yeah. What don't you like, what am I doing? What am I doing that is making you uncomfortable here? What am I doing that you are resenting resisting? What are my habits that are pissing you off? And and be willing to hear? Yeah, and then say, okay, okay. Well, some of the things we oh, I can change that. That's easy. I can change that. And it might kind of ease off quite quickly.
00:43:29.849 --> 00:43:42.210
Yes, yes. I mean, they could be unhappy with the rules they're having to follow at home or the it could be that, you know, the parent, they don't want to stay where they're finding their friends, their school, their social activities just aren't there.
00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:45.449
And they feel that they're disconnected from the stuff that really matters to them.
00:43:45.539 --> 00:44:01.500
And sometimes it's things like and this wouldn't be the only reason because they are, you know, they're teenagers. But, you know, Dad has better snacks. Could be I wouldn't be I mean, I'm making a bit flippant here, but sometimes they can get like a catalog in their heads.
00:44:01.829 --> 00:44:10.500
Yes. It's about getting in there. Yes. Only what's really good because I think we we always jumped to a conclusion about the way that we feel that they're seeing thing.
00:44:10.530 --> 00:44:21.960
Yeah, it's really important. My daughter, eight, seven, said she wanted to go to boarding school.
00:44:16.469 --> 00:44:34.139
What am I doing wrong? Why do you want to leave it was just looks really fun, either. And she'd been reading books like mallorytown. So it's rather than feeling that emotional gut response. Yes, we are punched where we
00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:40.409
take it massively personally. There is an element of it being personal Of course there is but it's absolutely not just that.
00:44:40.559 --> 00:45:15.599
But I think also coming back to the discussion we had about the teenager who seemed to favor another parent is a little bit similar but actually the patent is hard if you've separated or your divorce like you said, because there's probably a reason yeah. And but actually being able to big up Yeah, what the other person is doing for your teenager? Because the truth is, sometimes the other person is a disciplinarian, or sometimes they, you know, they're they they fly off the handle really quickly. And you can you can say I empathize with that that must be really hard.
00:45:15.989 --> 00:45:25.829
But here are the benefits, yes to spending time with them and actually be spending time with someone who does that, you know, obviously, you don't want them to be in a toxic environment.
00:45:25.858 --> 00:45:36.539
No, no, no, just say spending time with someone who does that is going to teach you some coping skills with because though you will always meet people like that your whole life. And the truth is they do love you. They just Yes,
00:45:36.570 --> 00:45:57.269
yeah. And that's a really important point. You know, if there's any snifter of abuse, or anything, you know, anything awful, then, of course, that's a completely different story. But I always kind of used the, if they come to me with something that they don't like, you know, I'd say, Well, I'm sure I'm sure there's a good reason for that. I'm not sure what that is. But I'm sure there's a good reason for it.
00:45:57.269 --> 00:45:58.829
And just remember, you know, your very loved,
00:45:59.429 --> 00:46:04.769
and also consider whether any of the things you're saying might be leading them to feel that
00:46:04.769 --> 00:46:07.170
way. Yes, so just your vibe,
00:46:08.429 --> 00:46:11.670
or you just look a bit sad and depressed.
00:46:11.670 --> 00:46:16.289
Yeah. And then they don't want to leave you because they feel they don't want to tell you, but they feel sorry, for that's
00:46:16.289 --> 00:46:40.920
a really good important point as well, like, you know, when my kids, I have my kids most of the time because their dad gives abroad, and then pre COVID, they would go for half the summer holidays. And they've just done that again now, for the, you know, for going for that longer chunk this year. And I've always said, tell them what I'm doing. When they're away, you know, I'm going to do this, I'm going to miss you. Because it's nice to know you're going to be missed.
00:46:41.489 --> 00:48:17.039
I'm going to miss you, and I can't wait to come home. And I'm doing this, this and this and this. So I'm going to be really busy. And I'm really excited about what I'm going to do. So they get both. So they're not thinking I'm sitting at home crying. And my life only only exists when they're in it because that makes them feel rubbish. And I'm doing fun stuff as well. But and I want them to come home and I miss them. You know, it's can be both. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's also really important and difficult to do in this situation that for many of us as mothers, and I'm sure fathers have this too, but I think mothers, we talked about it in the mum guilt thing. It's different. Our identity is very much wrapped up in being a mother. I'm not belittling fathers in that way, but it's maybe slightly different. So if our child says they don't want to live with us, then it's really difficult. So who am I if my child is not wanting to live with me, what Wheldon person, where does that leave me because you know, we know that they they're going to be leaving home relatively soon, maybe going to college, or whatever they choose to do. But that's a natural organic progression. Whereas if they say, you know, 1617, I don't want to live with you anymore. And my identity is a mum, then we'll where does that leave me and that's incredibly painful. And maybe we need to sit with that or get help to sit with that and process that because it's, it's probably just a phase, or talk, you know, but but don't go that will get well that will cause a painful reaction. And we need to allow that to subside before we can tackle the actual issue. And I
00:48:17.039 --> 00:49:06.210
think actually, on the flip side for men, the problem with our society, and the way it's set up is like you said, for a mother, she feels that this is very much her identity. And there are all sorts of sort of ideas about what that role should be. For the men, if they are finding it's they're struggling to access their their teenagers or their children. They've got quite an uphill struggle, because there's this assumption that, you know, the mother is the person Yeah, they should be with and sometimes that's not right. And, or the the teenager doesn't really want you know, if you've got, for example, a mother who's suffering with substance use, and it's become a very difficult situation. That said, the teenager will probably still want to see their mother.
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:13.530
You know, I know an example of this where even though they're aware that it's not a good situation, they still love them.
00:49:13.530 --> 00:49:16.889
They still want to be with them.
00:49:13.530 --> 00:49:16.889
Yes, even when not all the time.
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:23.190
Yeah, even when they push one of the parents away, because maybe, you know, their chemistry isn't great together.
00:49:23.190 --> 00:49:43.860
You know, we have different personalities, we have different stuff, you know, you we get on better with different people. We still we still as children, love our parents, you know, whatever they do on however they are we want, we don't want it to be difficult. Teenagers don't want it to be difficult. They want it to work, but when it doesn't work, then they find another way out.
00:49:44.010 --> 00:50:15.360
And I think that's really actually what's happened in our setup is that my husband didn't get to see his daughters an awful lot when they were younger. But we do see them now we have a really fantastic relationship. anything with them, and they come home, they'll pop around, they'll drop their stuff off, or they'll come in. And you know, my older daughter has a new boyfriend, you know, she called us and brought him round. So lovely.
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:34.320
Love him. And so actually it can or just don't think that it's set in stone. It's wrong right now. They need they still need that parent and they still will have a yearning parent. Yeah, forever. It's never too late unless you make them feel terrible about themselves. Yeah, yeah. So the critical thing is just trying to build a connection trying to understand them. And then at some point, they'll want you
00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:38.789
Yeah, they'll come back in whatever way works for you for your setup.
00:50:40.289 --> 00:51:09.757
Well, we're going to stay on this sort of topic in our next episode, because Louise has asked us to talk about one of the things that can put a huge strain on anyone's relationship, and that's coping with a different parenting style from your partner. And the children then probably don't know where the boundaries are as a result, and this is actually for teenagers in in particular, it can become really fraught, yeah. So we will have a conversation about that and do some research into that.
00:51:06.327 --> 00:51:26.684
Also, how do you talk to your teens about their future when they're worrying about their exams and choices? My daughter's just got one of her exams today her results and but they don't know what they want to do, which has been a refrain that my teenagers often bring up, you know, they want they want something they're aiming for.
00:51:26.740 --> 00:51:44.173
Yeah. Because otherwise why are they doing this exam? Yes, yes, make it meaningful. And then they feel like they're going to enter the enter the adult world and have no they think that you have to have a career path. So we'll talk about that. And that was Gail, who suggested that.
00:51:40.911 --> 00:51:58.289
Now that's it for now. Don't forget to subscribe so that you don't miss an episode. And if you want to get in touch with Susie, you can do so via her own website, which is SuzyAslimindfulness.co.uk. Lots of tips and ideas about mindfulness from her. And until next time, goodbye.
00:51:58.440 --> 00:51:59.159
Goodbye for now.
