Transcript
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Hello, I'm Rachel Richards and welcome to Teenagers Untangled, the audio hug where we use research by experts and our own experience to discuss everything and anything to do with parenting teenagers.
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Hi there, I'm Susie Asli, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist and musician. I'm a mother of three teenagers two of them are twin,
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as a parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. I've seen the transformative power of getting people together to share ideas and support each other. So here we are. Welcome. Pull up a chair. And let's begin. And today we're going to talk about conflict management. It's kind of a strange phrase, isn't it?
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But it's basically dealing with things we have don't agree - when people kick off. All of us need this with our partners, schools. Teenagers. Yeah, it's a fundamental part of life. So and when we thinking about why it matters, one of the points I read was that when preteens and teenagers avoid conflict, which they often do, they tend to do things behind your back or lie to you. Yeah. So because they don't like conflict.
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know, a lot of adults don't like conflict either. Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, some people actually will pick a fight. Yeah. And
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then there's a reason for that isn't Yes. Yeah.
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Not to solve the conflict. It's because it feels good to get that out.
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Yeah.
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Particularly if you're at a computer screen, and no one else is there to talk at you. Okay.
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And then, also, I love this quote from self care expert, Cheryl Richardson, which is 'if you avoid conflict, to keep the peace, you start a war inside yourself'. So right, we do need to have these conflicts. But there's a way to do it. So that's what we're going to talk about got some great tips aren't an acronym on how that can help us. Before that, we'll cover on nuggets. Yeah. Oh, wait, we've we've got a we've got a review.
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that first. So'massively useful, and thought provoking' is the title. Hi, guys, I just wanted to let you know how much I value your podcast and how helpful and reassuring I find it. And the timing of this episode on overreacting was uncannily perfect. I've listened to it twice. Well, I've actually found it massively useful and thought provoking in relation to a relationship with a mum, friend of mine who really triggers me and gets inside my head. So I thought that would be useful to say that it's also useful for all of our relationships, not just those we have with our kids. Anyway, huge thanks for all your work and top tips and all good things. That is from Tara. Thank you, Tara.
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That's just such a lovely piece of feedback.
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And it feeds directly into what we're talking about today.
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Because parenting isn't just about, you know, all my children drinking or they vaping? It's actually about these really fundamental skills that we all need and possibly didn't get when we were growing up. So yeah, all that we need refining.
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And how we are in one relationship is how we are probably in them all. So it's all related. I totally agree with her. And
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our kids are watching the way we behave and learning from that. So it's also about the way we relate to our partners, because that will teach them Yes, absolutely.
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So do what we do, not what we say
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yes. So your nugget, what's it this week?
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That's amazing.
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And also, it's very relevant for
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I've developed a bit of a tradition, particularly with one of my kids - for when when we have a conflict, which is life and it happens, we often text each other, which sounds a bit weird. Actually, it works really well. So we're able to have conversations face to face, but sometimes when maybe it's not quite resolved, or is there something I want to say and it's sort of hanging a little bit, or he will text it and it can be longer, and it can be more sort of you can think of and it works really well. And we've had loads of really good text conversations about quite important serious things. And the reason I'm bringing this up now is that there was actually something really important that he wanted to share and he went actually, do you know what, Mom, I'm gonna send you a message.
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And it was really important, and it worked so well. So it was the point of it is that, you know, we set these things out, and then our kids pick up on them and it becomes really useful.
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this, episode, because one of the points that will be made when we're talking about the acronym that you can remember is that sometimes it's better to write it down beforehand because It settles in your own mind what you're thinking. Because quite often we feel emotional. And we find it very difficult to pick apart what we think. And then trying to explain that to somebody else is so much harder.
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So actually writing it down forces you to explain it.
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Yeah. And as well as that is it's such a great connector. So I also wrote cards to my daughter, we had a little bit of an interesting weekend, and nothing drastic, but you know, we disagreed on some stuff and I wrote a little card, which she likes, and it's just a little thing. But it's the effort of doing it and giving it and sort of posting it under a door. It's just a really good connector. And then it's like, Oh, thanks, man.
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That's adorable. Wow, I've never done that. I need to. That's like the mums leaving things in the lunch boxes.
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it's really good.
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And then she sent me back to me later that day, and we're totally cool.
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Yes, love that.
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For me, I had an incident where my daughter is away and forgot something that she critically needed. And it's quite expensive AV equipment, and it's from the school. So she messaged me said Please, please, I'm so so sorry.
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Really sweet. I'm so sorry, mommy, could you possibly bring it? This is a two hour round trip. And so I was actually quite cross because I had already several times said can you pack that stuff away properly? Can you move it from the kitchen because it was lying in the kitchen. So there are all sorts of issues. And it had been left in my office unpacked. So I thought, How do I deal with this? And I actually wrote to her and said, I will I'll do this for you. I am upset. So I expressed my feelings. And I said, you can pay for my petrol.
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The alternative is you can pay for my time, and I'll charge you at minimum wage. And she said to me, well, which is cheaper, and I said, you're going to work them both out. I said, I want the answer by the end of the day, which one are you going to use? I sent her a screenshot of the fuel use in my car, how long I've driven for. And then I also sent her the cost of the fuel I put in and it was £1.60 a litre.
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You get the fuel use or have my car in mpg. So that involved a conversion that she had to do which was a little more complicated. Yes. And so the first answer came back wrong.
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And I said No, try again. Show me your working. And here's a hint. And the great thing was it gave her an understanding of why maths matters. Yeah. Okay. It gave her a chance to practice some of the skills that she's supposed to be practicing for her exams. And it also gave her the choice. So when am I going to do it? Am I going to pay? And this is why my allowance system works really, really well.
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Because she totally said that's completely fair, I totally understand it, it was a very easy thing to do. And I just take the money out of the account, and then it's gone. So I don't keep reminding her about it. Because you know what, we all make stupid mistakes, and she's paid her penalty. I've resolved it in a way that I'm happy about. So it works. Well done, Mom, let's go on to conflict. And it we know it's a major issue for human relationships.
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Conflict is a really important part of life. And generally we shy away from conflict, possibly because we associate it as being either or as either we sweep it under the carpet, or it's a really big drama that ends up with big scenes and a lot of pain. And what we could be better at is teaching our kids and teaching ourselves as adults that conflict is a part of life is an absolutely normal part of life.
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Yes, it can feel a bit uncomfortable. But if we address it really early the first signs of conflicts and we learn some some tools and some techniques that mean that we can disagree and we can do it in a really healthy harmonious way then it's not such a thing to fear. And we don't go oh conflict we go.
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Okay. It's part of life. Yes,
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I see a conflict. Right. What do I do about it? Yeah, rather than having that panic. Yeah. Love that. And it's that's it conflict resolution is the ability to settle disagreements using negotiation and compromise. One small study, which was published in Science Direct, it was found that parents and young teens don't use systematic methods of solving disagreements as if we need a study to tell us they found young teens thought parents or siblings initiated most disagreements. Oh, yeah.
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And that the disagreements were as part of the routine Yeah. And yeah, and and I think like what I thought was funny about this was my daughter one day turned to me and said, Mommy, I know that I know people at home often, and I've realized that the way to deal with it is just, you know, when I'm told I've done something bad, I just go.
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Oh, yeah. Okay, thank you.
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Sorry. And then I just said you are so smart. So that's incredible. Because what do you say after that? Yeah. However, however, I have said to her, it's a very useful thing to defuse the situation. But I would quite like to know your
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And I was reading something actually, yesterday viewpoint.
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just spoke, for coincidence, you know, the difference when we when we're bringing up our kids, the difference between compliance and cooperation, brilliant. And compliance is, you know, it's that's really prevailing, it's in this culture for bringing up you know, especially in small kids, they need to be good, they need to be quiet, they need to behave, you know, you don't want the kid that steals all the cake at the party you don't want, you don't want the one that goes and bites the others or pulls their hair because you know, the other kids, whatever their situation is, you want the compliant kid.
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So they kind of clip their wings a bit. And that's not good. You want the kid who can cooperate and can verbalize. So that's the conflict resolution.
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Yes.
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Fascinating. So, and then with the parents, they thought the disagreements represented their struggles with their role as a parent, or they were opportunities to instill a sense of intrinsic responsibility in their child. So yeah, so even with the conflict, we're coming at it with a different viewpoint. And another study that I looked at was a training program that was conducted in four classrooms in an American middle class elementary school.
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92 students in the third through sixth grades received 30 minutes of training per day for six weeks. That's a lot of training.
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But the training focused on negotiation and mediation procedures and skills. And what they did was they checked before and after, how are these kids dealing with it. And they found that within four months after the training, the students were still using the procedures to resolve conflicts. And it meant that there was a massive reduction in the number of conflicts, and the parents who were having to answer the teachers and the principal who were having to deal with conflict, you know, they weren't going to teacher. Right? They were resolving the problems amongst themselves. Yeah,
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brilliant, because they get the skills and the tools, and it's also normalized that they can, the conflicts are going to come up rather than being a big drama.
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And we get this at home, we get a lot of parents who say the siblings are arguing all the time. Rather than having to intervene is teach them how they can resolve these conflicts themselves. Absolutely. That's right. So I looked at lots and lots and lots of websites and lots of books. And the one that I found incredibly helpful was'Making Great Relationships' by Rick Hansen. And the reason I found it so helpful is because he probably he thinks like me, and he's very clear. I like I just want an acronym. I don't want to have lots of wishy washy stuff, because I can't remember it. So he talks about the types of conflict, he says there are realistic and non realistic types of conflicts. So a non realistic type of conflict is rooted in I don't know, ignorance, historic tradition?
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Prejudice. So let's say, I'm a devout Catholic, and you don't believe in God. If we start trying to have a an argument, it's not really going to go anywhere, because we fundamentally have different beliefs. So we can agree to disagree. And what you can do is you stop at escalating.
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Yeah, I mean, you can have a discussion can't you, but I guess the goal is that you want to agree, that's probably not going to happen.
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Yeah. So this is what I mean, are we going to get somewhere using, you know, trying this? Well, you can if you want to spend hours and maybe years, trying to unpack, because these are fundamentally different ways of doing things or thinking about things.
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That's really interesting, isn't it? Because I think we do have generally, again, big generalization a problem with agreeing to disagree. We don't we like it?
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It kind of sits open, we like to have it in a box wrapped up?
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Like it just it's not a natural to agree to disagree is quite a mature place to come to Yeah.
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And I have exercised that. I mean, I've been on Twitter, where people have said rude things to me. And sometimes they've got a point.
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And I'll just say good point.
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And then then they just go, oh, well, what do I do with that?
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Because agree to disagree usually means Yeah, you can have your opinion, but really, I'm right. I sometimes really agree to disagree. It's like, there's an equal value for the opinions.
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Or I'll say, you know, I agree with this. But you're never going to make me agree with that. Because I fundamentally disagree. But that's fine.
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And it's the cornerstone of empathy, isn't it? I don't have to agree. But we can, we can respect that you think in that particular way.
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And I understand that you do that?
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Yeah. And it's coming back to you doesn't have to be all or nothing. So then the other type of conflict is realistic. Two parties have opposing needs or values. So is the conflict about value or emotions? And if so, don't worry, we'll come back to this.
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If it's about value or emotions, then you use conflict resolution. If it's about needs, it's collaborative problem solving. So we do have two avenues you can use. And the collaborative problem solving, I'll just get that out of the way. That's basically, you've got four people in the house, you have one car, and they're all drivers. And they will say, well, I need the car. But the truth is, you don't all need the car, you just need to get somewhere. Right. So the question is, how do you fix this? Yes. is sort of a pragmatic solution. Yeah, absolutely. It's not it's not a value based thing. It's just basically you can all sit down together and say, Okay, everyone come up with your solutions.
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We'll pick the best solution.
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Yeah, that everyone agrees is the best one easy, it's not easy.
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In a family, it often becomes a value thing, doesn't it? I need
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it more than you. I need it more than you.
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But what do you need it for?
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Yeah. Okay, let's, get down to the need, what is the need. And once you can talk about the need, you can say, okay, you can give that one a lift to there.
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Or we can get a taxi.
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Actually, that reminds me of a book, which I think is brilliant. And a way of managing conflict resolution is a guy called Marshall Rosenberg, who wrote the book, 'Nonviolent Communication', and it's a whole thing. He's not around anymore.
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But he was used in lots of mediation, you know, in the Middle East, and all sorts of interesting. And he's, got a way of doing it. Absolutely amazing man. And one of those was, you know, you need to, firstly, be aware of what your need is and know what the other parts need is, because often we presume that it's the same as ours, and it's not. And he's got loads of other ways of, you know, of doing which I think is similar to the, to the things we're going to be talking about in a minute. Yes, need knowing your own need, and the other person's need and seeing it, are they the same? And if they're not, then well how do we approach them.
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And coming back to what you said earlier. It's about identifying that stuff. So sometimes writing it down makes it much easier, because if you haven't identified it, then you can't really communicate it.
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And if your need turns out to be I just want to be right. Well, maybe you can question that.
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Yeah. And so before you go into this, you've got to understand that there are roadblocks to communication.
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They're things like judging, which is both criticizing and praising, because what you're doing is you're still judging, even if you're praising, sending solutions. So you're saying, Well, you know, I know the answer to this and being the parent and saying, This is the solution, because what you're doing is there's no communication. Avoiding the other person's concern. So you know, diverting conversation to what you want to talk about or leaving the room. Because this matters, and you've done that you've not left the room, you've actually stayed there with one of your children who was felt really strongly about something that you simply couldn't understand. It's worth sticking it out. Because, it shows that you care enough.
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Yeah. And that is absolutely the key to it all is in a family situation. But in any situation is really understanding. And again, as you say, staying until you get it. A nd starting with an open mind.
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So I don't know where this conversation is going until we have it. I really don't I don't have an agenda. I don't have a preconceived idea. Actually, my only agenda is I want to understand, and I had this with, as you said, my daughter the other day where I didn't agree on what we were going to do as a practical thing, but it was involving something I just didn't understand. So I said to her, I don't understand I hear what you're saying. But actually, I don't get it doesn't make sense to me. So tell me talk to me, tell me all about it. And it took us ages of being backwards and forwards a bit.
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And eventually it was like, Okay, I get it now. And she could hear that I got it and and we resolved it. So until you understand you can't but you have to go in with an open mind.
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And that technique, there's actually a And in fact, at the end of that conversation, I actually said to technique, which is LUFU, which is listening until they feel understood. It's a great one. So it's just basically staying with them until they see that you have listened to them and you her, I said, I still don't quite understand why it's so important understand them. Not that you agree, just that you can understand them. And that makes them feel that they can come back in the relationship and the relationship is valuable.
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to you. But I hear that it is and I fed her back what it actually was, this is what I'm hearing you saying? That makes sense to me. And she was like, yeah, that is it.
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And we talked about those skills in - I think it was episode three when we talked about listening and communicating with your teenager because this stuff. It's about paraphrasing what they've said, what you think they're saying, because that way they can either say oh, yes, that's exactly it, or they can say no, that's not how I think because that's the way you inch towards a full understanding.
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And those conversations, you're not trying
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Yes. And one last thing, one of the roadblocks that we all tend to use is reassurance which is a to win or lose we often go into a conversation especially when there's a sniff of conflict in it. Our ego wakes up and goes way of emotionally withdrawing from the other person while oh, I need to win this. I need to be right and so it becomes appearing to care or to be helpful. So when you say it's black and white. Especially with teenagers. It's really important To go into it with a, I don't know what's going to happen. So gonna be fine. We haven't really unpacked why it matters to them the conversation sounds a bit more like, Oh, I get it now. Oh, what do you mean by that? Or you know, okay, tell me more about that. I didn't quite get that.
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And it's a kind of an unpacking rather than a right, this is what I think and you're wrong, you've just gone you're going to be fine just switch it off because that just ends up in more fights.
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because it's uncomfortable.
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Exactly. And this happens a lot with you know, from my friend who's got cancer you know, people go You're gonna be fine, don't worry,
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because they're uncomfortable. Exactly. And related to that I think is really important that we have a little look at because when we have conflict it often wakes our stress response because it's a bit more dangerous when we have conflict as a survival thing.
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And looking what is our own particular stress response? So is it fight is it flight? Is it freeze? Or there's a fourth one fawn? And what are our kids so we will have different ones and if we can identify that and we have all of them but we often have a tendency. The fighting one is the one who's shouting and arguing and fighting and needs to win. The flight? Oh, no, that's fine. That's the I'm fine. Runaway and then the freeze, you know, rabbit in headlights, foreigners like you, you know, you do anything to make it? You make it okay again, you say anything that makes it all good again, and identifying with your kids, you know, what their tendencies are. So then you can manage it is that's really important because that no restriction rather than actual interaction.
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And people tend to grow up with anti listening advice. I mean, you know, as parents will say, Oh, don't listen to them. And also in classrooms, people tend to tune out or ignore rather than cause a problem, yeah. It's a skill to learn this stuff. So how do we do this? It's assertion. And people often confuse assertion with pushing your agenda. But actually being assertive is about being honest about how you feel. So for example, my daughter came to me and said, I've got this problem with my friend. She said she wants this but I don't want to do that but I don't want to ruin the friendship because it really matters to me. And I said, Yes, but what about what you need?
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How is she supposed to know if you're not prepared to tell her that that is your friend she is very to be friends, it requires both of you to be honest about how you think and feel her friend tends to really overreact. This is a tactic that some people use either consciously or subconsciously.
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My husband used to work for Lehman Brothers for a while, which is an investment bank, and he said there was a guy who in meetings would go red in the face, bang the table, you know, and everyone would go ah, and and he talked to him afterwards and say, Oh, you were really upset. He said, No, I wasn't upset at all I just use that technique.
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That's so naughty.
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It's a really naughty tactic, but it's very powerful. So it's also about okay, I see that you're overreacting right now you're banging the table or your whatever, because then it doesn't send us into that 'ooh' I've got to calm down. Okay, because you go okay, I don't know whether it's an conscious or subconscious tactic but you've gone into that that's yours. That's okay.
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Words that we pick as well I don't know if you're coming on to that but the words that we pick because often if we get when we get into a conflict we get very blaming you don't we like you it's me it's your fault. It's not my fault. We're desperate to get any blame off us because we don't want that sticking on us. So our language becomes you did you did you did you do this and if we can change that to when this happens to be more neutral you know, when this happens, I feel this you can't disagree with how somebody feels
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no so that is it. So hit so first of all, if you want to assert your thinking and how you feel it's the acronym I've put up as offer OFA okay. Don't use small talk before you do this. And my daughter said I did that and I said oh, I'm sorry I forgot to mention to you don't use small talk and she said that was the thing that actually threw us off because Well because people can smell it a mile off
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Why is that?
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you know say for example you start going oh this is really nice. And then just go in just go in you say I just need to have a conversation and do it.
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So you what you do is your first thing is O objective be objective and non judgmental description of the behavior asking the person to change whatever it is. Next one is F feelings so when you don't clean up after yourself is the objective that's the like you that this person is not cleaning up how it makes you feel so that we can be more neutral Can you when when the counter is untidy Yep, you
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can be no more neutral about it is out. I feel annoyed Yeah. That's the feeling and then the effect. So how does
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That makes loads of sense because I always find that what they're doing actually affects you so it makes me annoyed because I then have to clear up before I even start cooking, yeah. All right, and then pause. And the reason you pause is because there's a very high chance that you will get a negative response of some sort, either that they locked down or that they fight back or whatever they do, because nobody likes being told that they've upset someone in any way, whatever it then then more is needed afterwards? solution. So like a is, whatever their defense mechanism, so look out for the defense mechanism. And that's the point of which you do the LUFU. So what you've got to do is you've got to really engage, need, what is my need in that?
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Okay, for example, it could be don't turn away, don't start looking at your phone, or how do you feel about not tidying up or just let you know, whatever it is, look at the person watch for the signals.
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How are they responding right now? And when they tell you something, try and show them that you're listening by repeating back to them. Okay, so I hear you feel this. Am I right? And yeah, just really listen to them, then jump in.
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Yeah, really, you're not trying to win something you're trying to explain how this makes you feel.
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if you if you can't do it now then by six o'clock in the evening, or whatever this situation is? And then you can work out a solution? Of course, yes, you come, you come to allow that, then it's left a bit kind of,
00:26:28.509 --> 00:26:41.529
yes, you need to get to the point where they feel understood. So the LUFU is, you might need to cycle a couple of times through this them reacting you coming back? And then once they feel understood.
00:26:37.509 --> 00:26:45.369
And you both feel like okay, you get me I get you. What's the solution? You go on to a collaborative fix.
00:26:48.220 --> 00:27:30.009
That was the ending of the disagreement I had with my daughter at the weekend. We had two different solutions. One was, you know, something about a booking and another was actually when when, when we disagree, her brain goes offline, as everybody does. And she understands that now. So she said, I don't like it when you leave. If we've disagreed. I know what you're doing. You're waiting for my brain to calm down so we can talk about it. But I don't like you leaving the room and it doesn't feel very nice. So we brainstormed it. I said, Okay, well, maybe I can stay in the room and wait for you to come down with that work. And she's like, Yeah, let's try that. So then it feels like we've come full circle. There's a tangible thing we can do next time.
00:27:30.000 --> 00:28:02.730
And the important thing is that you've both now listened, understood, and you now you can come up with what's the answer. And, coming back to things like consequences, which we've talked about in the past rules, any of these things, they require both of you to agree to them, because otherwise, what's going to happen is they won't be adhered to these useful techniques can fit into every single one of these scenarios we struggle with at home.
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:05.220
Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:17.279
And yeah, you have to absolutely be in agreement with it, and be really flexible. So they might come with an amazing solution that you haven't thought of. And you go Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's try it. Let's ditch mine, you know, be more flexible and really open to ideas.
00:28:17.309 --> 00:28:36.059
Yes, as you said, they may come up with something that's actually a strong conflict with yours which requires resolving. Yeah. And you have to understand that before both of you can move forward.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:29:02.430
Yeah. And genuinely in the home, I like to think the tone of a home is something that is a process, isn't it. So we have that Coke bottle image of you shake a coke bottle, and you take the lid off immediately and the whole thing explodes. So conflicts, they start tiny, always with people that we live with. So you know, take the lid off a tiny bit when it's tiny.
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:06.029
I love that point.
00:29:06.059 --> 00:29:10.440
So I always do that.
00:29:06.059 --> 00:29:21.150
I'm always in like, tiny bit of tension, not in a weird, neurotic way, and then you've taken the lid off a little bit and it doesn't explode.
00:29:21.210 --> 00:29:51.119
Yeah. So that's pretty much it. So it's OFA and then LUFU through and then you can go into the Okay, let's negotiate a collaborative solution. If you are in a situation where there's a lot of conflict in your home, there are ways you can get help. I'll put on the podcast notes. Some of the organizations, including speaking to Susie, you know, counseling services parent line, you know, the domestic family violence, you know, sometimes it's not really that simple,
00:29:51.240 --> 00:30:02.160
no conflicts, you know, it can be really triggering and if people have underlying things that you know, they're very angry about or it's you know, it's massively triggering, it can lead to violence. So yeah, that's not what we're talking about. We're not
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:25.940
talking about that. But these skills, practice them. Don't expect them to get them right the first time. My friend was trying to do this with her son, and he's 15 and when they got to the LUFU stage, it's just the listening Don't you feel understood? And he went, Connor just jumped to the end I heard you. And she said, No, you have to actually feed back to me that you listened and you understood he was your classic son saying hang on how long have we been doing this for been
00:30:26.069 --> 00:30:28.319
doing this for two minutes? Your time is up mom.
00:30:30.960 --> 00:31:08.220
I told her about the two minutes you went I don't even I think tulip two minutes is too long for my son, I think maybe a minute I said you. Very funny. So have you ever alone never had conflict with your teenager? And I didn't know is your household nonstop conflict is really, really a tricky subject. We'd love to hear if you have any great tips for us, because we're always interested in what people have used as to help them. And if you've enjoyed this episode, then of course, why not help others? Tell your friends tell the school subscribe to our podcast. Yes, please leave a review or just talk to us. You know, we're very friendly.
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:26.130
Always. We're on we're on the social media. I'm terrible at Facebook, I am on Instagram. I'm kind of where my bonus daughters are. My teenagers aren't so much on Instagram. My bonus daughters are there and that's a great way for me to communicate with them and also with listeners. So come and join us. Susie has her own website which is
00:31:26.130 --> 00:31:30.059
www.amindful-life.co.uk.
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:46.019
And if you want to contact us directly, it's www.teenagersuntangled.com. Lots of ways to communicate with us, a blog. Every episode is on there. So just come and come and say hi. That's it for now.
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:46.019
Goodbye. Bye for now.
