Transcript
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Hello, I'm Rachel Richards, and welcome to teenagers untangled where we combine research by experts and ideas from other parents to solve your problems. As a parenting coach, I saw the incredible power of getting people together to share ideas and support each other. So, welcome. Pull up a chair. And let's begin. Coming up later in this podcast we discussed Jenny's question. Whenever I asked my child to do something around the house, he just says why me and claimed that I don't ask the other kids to do these things. Am I supposed to keep a tally? What can I do? To discuss this I'm joined by Susie azulene, mindfulness coach and mum to three teenagers Hi, Susie. But first, the tricky area of body image and the issues it throws up. As we all know, puberty is a time of massive development combined obvious physical changes with a heightened desire to fit into new social groups. And it's not surprising that teenagers can become hyper aware of themselves and their image. Now let's start with a healthy body image which is feeling happy and satisfied with your body and what it can do. We pretty much all start there. As toddlers, such as the great delight we have when we realize we can jump in puddles and spinning circles. But then the unhealthy body image that can creep in is when a person is highly self critical comparing their body to others and obsessing about some aspect of it. The way Brene Brown talks about it is that shame is a deeply painful sensation from the belief that we're not good enough and will not be accepted by a group. Susie, do you have a sort of mindfulness approach to this?
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Yeah, I mean, firstly, I think it's a huge topic. In our culture, we have a quite a skewed relationship with body image in general, where we, we sort of see people who look a particular way, like they're thin, they look, they look beautiful, but there's an emphasis on being thin. And we also almost sort of see them as being superior to people who are larger, which is really messed up
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completely is interesting, because in her book, the body is not an apology by Sonya, Renee Taylor, she points out that only 5% of American women have the body type that advertising depicts is ideal. And we're getting we're absorbing this information. And when teenagers start looking out looking out into the world, they're gaining access to Instagram and Tik Tok, and basically watching films and advertising the game to get a sense of what is normal. Yes, and it's not remotely normal.
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No and, and I love Brene Brown, you quoted her, I think she's absolutely amazing.
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And she's very much talking about shame, as you mentioned, but the sense of belonging, and I think that is absolutely crucial, particularly for teenagers, they just want to belong, we all want to belong, but they particularly want to belong, and they don't quite know how to belong. So they get sort of, because of all the different things in society, social media, different ways of being they, you know, body image is a massive part of that. And also because their bodies are changing on a daily basis. And yes, so our body looks ideally this particular way this year, but 10 years ago, ideal in inverted commas, body image bit different in the 60s, it was very different, it will be different in 10 years time. So these poor teens are aspiring to look a particular way, when probably their body can never look like that. So it gives them this feeling of I can never belong there. Or they do things that are sort of punishing to their bodies to try to become a particular way. And really importantly, it is never about how you look. It's always about something that's going on inside. So that's where we need to start, you know, how do you feel? How do you feel about yourself? And then how you look matters less? Yeah, that sounds very easy. And it's really not easy. But it that's at the crux of it, I
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think. And that was one of the points that was brought up in one of the websites that access all of the details of the things I've read and research that I've accessed will be on the podcast notes.
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The point is to focus on the child as a whole. Praise them for what their body can do, not what they look like, get them doing things that make them feel good, like sports is a great one. It saves boys and girls because if you're looking at well how can my body do this?
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You're not focused just on what it looks like when it's doing that. And
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it's never that's that's just I always say to my kids, I think you look absolutely beautiful. I think you're stunning. And it's the least interesting thing about you.
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That's a wonderful point. That's a wonderful thing to say that it's actually the least interesting thing about anybody I mean, we focus on the exterior but once you get to know somebody becomes you don't even see some of the things about the way they look.
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You're much more interested in the exchange and what you can do with them. And Sonya Renee Taylor in the body is not an apology points out well she called The body shame profit complex. And she says you can't sell goods to people unless they feel the need. And most of us don't need the things we're buying. We buy them because we're shamed into feeling that we do need them. And the psychologist Jean Baker Miller and Irene Stiva, in 1997, did a study that looked into self esteem. And they found that it's not about terrific outfits or being successful in life. Self esteem, which is the opposite of shame is about forming and maintaining relationships, which make people feel sure their value.
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Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with that. And it's, I mean, nice outfits are nice things can make you feel good kind of they can. They can lovely boost boost you Yeah, that's what they are. Yeah, but they don't last. And connection is what we really need. And, you know, the idea, and I've experienced this many times, but I think particularly for teenagers, you know, worrying about what you're going to wear for something when I'm like, I can't go to that because I haven't got the right outfit, or I can't go to the swimming pool because I look rubbish in a swimsuit, or whatever the particular thing is. And then you get there. And within 10 minutes, because you found your friends and you're you know, you're connecting. You've forgotten all about the outfits.
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It's the connection that matters.
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Exactly, exactly. You're just having fun.
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Yeah. It's an interesting thing about the weight and the way that society sets us up. And it comes to us constantly. We don't even notice it half the time.
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But what's hilarious is that people always say to me, so Oh, you're looking great. Have you lost weight? As if it's some kind of compliment?
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Superior thing? If you're, you know, you're
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I always think how fat Do you remember maybe, but, but I don't mind because actually, what's happening is they just have internalized the way that we're told we need to think about other people's bodies. So it's about coming back to our own prejudices and our own thinking. So we've got the stuff that's going on, on the internet, the Instagram and the Tick Tock and the images that have been presented there.
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And you know, now these massive bottoms are fairly big. I even saw Madonna's got a massive bottom. Now it's very strange, but there's this stuff or will influence our children. But actually, the best way to combat it is to check how we're talking about these things at home, and also talk to them about what they're seeing. So I was lucky because my daughters have followed on from their stepsisters. And while the stepsisters were on Instagram, and all those sorts of things, I would sometimes go on to them before my daughters were allowed onto these social media platforms. And I say, hey, remember what they looked like the other morning when they got up, which is normal. And and then I'd show the Instagram image. And I'd say, you see how different you see how different that is? So you need to start filtering before you get into this. And understanding what's actually going on there. And then look around you walk down the street, walk around and look at other teenagers your age, do they really look like that?
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Yeah,
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that's really good awareness to have a sort of a normal image and awareness in general for that's a massive part of mindfulness. And, you know, mindful eating, be just being aware turning inwards, what how do I feel and making that the starting point? Not?
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Otherwise, we're just focusing on the external and what's
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making? It's what's making me feel that way?
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Yes. So then you can actually spot when you're being manipulated, then you can spot that actually, is that a true feeling? Or is that something that's been pushed on me by the people around me or the things that I'm accessing,
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so then the way that we look becomes a fun thing.
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It's like it's an expression of our personality, it's an expression of who we are, as opposed to the way to belong, which is a really different way around.
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And that's a really good point as well, because I think as parents, we need to rather than panic when our children are experimenting with the way they look, whether it's the clothing or the things they're trying to do that we need to talk to them about it and embrace it. Having said that, you know, the tattoos side know that. I do put limits.
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I've encouraged mine
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that's another technique, just encourage them and then they'll go no, that's really not cool, because my mum wants me to do it.
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I've told them what I can't wait, see what color hair they're gonna have. And obviously, they can't in school, but which I think is a massive shame. But that's a whole other topic.
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Oh, my daughter went in with red hair under it was red underneath the hair. And I said to her, if you get sent home, that's your fault and your problems, not my problem. But she wanted it. I did it for her, because she's just trying to experiment and that's fine. And I do think cultural influence can have a very important role here. And it's much harder when you come from a culture that has a certain type. So I know that a friend of my daughters comes from an Asian culture where petite is everything, you have to be petite. And there's so the pressure on the mother is then transferred down to the daughter. And this is tragic, because it's very, very hard to be something you're not even she'd been brought up with the Western diet. And then you get the clash of the two different ways of seeing things, which makes it even harder,
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that is much harder.
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And again, that comes back down to belonging, doesn't it we want to belong. And basically, as human beings, we want to be accepted and loved for who we are exactly who we are. And if who we are doesn't match some particular way, then that's really painful, really difficult.
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Some of the tips I saw in terms of our own role is avoid negative talk about your own weight diets, crash diets, be proud of what your body can do, talk about how special your body is, don't comment on how your your child looks. And I've done this, I've done this once and it wasn't received well, because it's a judgment, when I say something about the way that they look, then I've passed judgment. And the whole point is I need to stop judging. One of the things that's also helped me is having had cancer and I've had an operation where I had a lump removed from my breast. And I now have a blue breast and scar tissue. But it's not actually I was very lucky because it remains looking quite similar to the way it was before. But when I look around me at the other people who suffer from cancer, and I'm aging, and I remain hugely positive, because I know what the other option is. And being dead is no fun. To the fact that I have a body and my body can still do things, and it's and the aging and the wrinkles on the backs of the hands and the round my eyes, they just something to show people that I've had a really fantastic life so far, and I'm still alive.
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And yeah, I love that thing. It's beautiful. And also the idea that we're not meant to stay the same thing change, you know, we're obsessed with staying the same. And for teenagers as well. They go through this huge change, you know, and it's from day to day, it's kind of overwhelming for them, you know, depending on how their particular processes. And if we can model and you know, some days I'm good at that sometimes I'm less good, you know, we're human, then that's, you know, showing them that they're, you know, we're meant to change events are meant to progress.
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Exactly, exactly. So things to look out for, where it's actually really gone wrong is continually comparing their body to somebody else, not wanting to leave the house because of the way they look, not trying out new things because of the way they look obsessing about their way to a certain part of their body, spending a lot of time looking in the mirror, and seeking imperfection. And then linking food with feelings of guilt or shame in a strange habits, these things mean, you really need to lean in and engage and talk about the feelings and what's actually happening. If you feel like you're sinking, and you can't really do enough with them, it's better to get help early.
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Yeah. And I think it's really important to say that because it's such a vulnerable and difficult topic, you know, there's a difference between having a few hang ups and having some sort of, you know, full blown eat disordered eating, which can be really dangerous, and really, really painful. And that needs professional help.
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All of these things are treatable. But the sooner you get some professional advice, and I know it's very hard at the moment because of COVID. And it's made life very tricky when you're trying to seek out help. The other thing I found incredible has been Amazon. I know I don't want to advertise Amazon because it's failings. But you know, those reviews on Amazon if you go in and find books, because books I think are better than websites purely because the people who are writing the books have had to go through checks, you know, they're qualified, they've been edited, and they'll give you programs and if you look for books that deal with a specific issue that you're suffering, or your child is suffering, they can be an enormous enormous ly helpful resource it's always worth doing that so for
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the kids as well you know, on on social media, which is where they live there's so much body positivity, really beautiful people out there, just trying to dispel those, those really horrible myths that we need to look a particular way.
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And you know, showing that there are other options and normalizing that we're all you know, we've all got lumps and
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bumps and it's so true. Yes, I'm seeing I saw is a lovely lady who's got it's not a patient, it's psoriasis.
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And my goodness, her skins like a it's like a lap is absolutely beautiful. But you know, we don't see that in normal life and she wears a bikini so you can see it and you start to realize, Oh, it's just it's just another body. And it's very helpful to see that there is no one way to look
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and it's the least interested The least.
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What do you think is as in as you you've been affected by references to the research we've used in the podcast, write up, don't battle on alone seek help join our discussions on Facebook and Instagram or email us at help at teenagers untangle.com. Now on to Jenny's question. Whenever I asked my child to do something around the house, he just says why me and claims that I don't ask the other kids to do these things? Should I keep a tally?
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What do you think?
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Oh, yeah, minefields. I think two things.
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I think, firstly, I think firstly, we have this idea that when we finally get around to it, I'm speaking from personal experience, asking our children and saying, Look, I'm going to ask you to do this. And you're going to do that. And I've got this idea that you're going to be doing this chore that we somehow expect them to go. Oh, great. Yeah, I'll do that man, telling me and what else do you want me to do? And because never hear that we hear? Oh, I don't want to Why does she not have to do it? Why do I have to do everything. And resistance, of course, there's a resistance to doing something that they don't want to do. And we've maybe just need to change our expectations, just stick our fingers in areas where while they're resisting and just you know, make sure that they do whatever it is you've asked them to do. But to drop the expectation that they're going to somehow to relish it and get away. To do a really boring,
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I will stop scrolling through Tik Tok. And I'll come and do this dishwasher.
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And then the other thing, I think, is that I mean, and I put my hand up completely for this is, as I parented on my own, since my kids were 18 months, and four, were three of them, I have seen them be really enthusiastic, when they were little, you know that that lovely phase where they really want to help, they really want to do things. And I haven't had the energy or the time or whatever to prioritize that because there was a lot going on. So I have, you know, they haven't, I haven't sort of grabbed those moments as well, as I would like to have done,
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Susie, there is a graph, then it shows an inverse relationship between the child's interest in helping and their ability to help.
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I can totally believe that.
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So you're not alone? No. And I suppose as a single parent, it's very, very interesting point because I have two stepdaughters and their mother, I think, you know, she had so much going on that it was very hard, you know, very often you think I'll just do myself?
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Yes. Because they don't know what they're doing. And it doesn't get done as well. And there's so much resistance, and I think is a very, very common response. What's interesting about it is we've got a whole attitude where we are a team, everybody has to help, we are all benefiting. So we all have to this is part of being in a team. And she said, Yeah, okay, and start the dishwasher.
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Because I said you do the dishwasher, you do the wiping down the table, you do that. And I came to the dishwasher, washer and looked in and all the bowls were stacked on one on top of each other. Just excuse me, can you just come come over here, come over here. You know, when we close this door and this dishwasher, what were you expecting was going to happen?
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Do you think there's a little man inside that runs around with a washing up sponge and some soap? And she looked at me like, What are you talking about? And I just said, oh my goodness, you've never been shown how to stack a dishwasher. And the same thing happened with a bathroom when I said got guests coming in? Could you please tidy up?
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Just clean the bathroom? Because there were two basins. You know, they're going to want to use one of these basins. And then later on, I walked past and said, I told you could you please clean the bathroom? She said well, I have and she left all her stuff around the back of the basins, both basins. And I said to come in, you see these two drawers underneath your basin and there's another two ones, that's one drawer per person, can you please put all your stuff in the drawer because by leaving it all out, it looks messy and you're claiming in that space. This is again something she's never been shown it's not her fault. And it's not really the fault of her mother either because her mother was busy. And I completely understand how this happens. But we somehow need to transfer the knowledge of running a house from being the parent who's responsible to the Child
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Yeah, and I think some of us are more naturally than others. I that does not come naturally to me. And I'm just sitting here thinking that I'm not sure I was ever taught those things either. But I've had to learn you know the hard way that if things don't have a home they just disappear.
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Yes. And you can spend hours Yeah How was looking for you literally
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and and have no recollection of where I've left them. And I have you know my kids are different they I have twins and this so different in them. approach to stuff, you know, my daughter is really good and really knows where all her stuff is, is really naturally very tidy. And her twin brother is more like me, you know, I've had to teach him, you know, you'd have a mantra going out the door, you know. And in when he started secondary school, you will keys train ticket. And there was another thing, which I can't remember what it was. And he would repeat it, because I got it, you know, because otherwise he wouldn't have it.
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So it is sort of an inborn thing as well,
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I came from a chaotic household where none of this was really prioritize. And my parents, actually, we grew up in Africa, and we had servants.
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So we came to England. And I remember, one day as a teenager looking around my room and thinking, Oh, I'll tidy up. And then then my next thought was, how does that happen worldwide, because I had no concept of how this actually happens. So even if you have, I mean, obviously, from them, we had no money. So we didn't have servants. But even if you have people in your home who can do some of this, we really need to get our children involved in the chores. Number one, it actually makes them feel part of a team, it means it when people have analyzed suicide, one of the biggest problems with suicide is a sense of lack of purpose. And being part of a team, being part of the family running the family home, will give them a sense of purpose, maybe not the sense of purpose that they prefer. But they do need to understand that that is part of being a human being in the world we're living in. But I also think it teaches empathy.
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We keep talking about empathy in schools, and you know, just this theoretical idea of empathy, but actually being involved in trying to do tasks that aren't particularly pleasant. But the need to be done, then makes puts them in the shoes of either their parent and saying, Oh, actually, yeah, it is crap.
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Okay, you're grumpy, because you've worked all day, you've come home, had food, make food.
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And here I am saying I can't be bothered to clear up, I get it.
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But also, you know, if they are in the fortunate position, that they then will have staff either at work or in the home, they then will, they won't be sitting there expecting too much from the staff. And there'll be gracious about the work that's been done.
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I mean, I've been generally let my kids off the hook massively. They did loads of cleaning in lockdown, which was I made a list and they had to pick two things. And actually, it was funny, like, after a few weeks of doing that, we can't really be bothered, because it just gets dirty again. Yeah. We had when my kids were little, we used to do cooking, I used to think that was a fun way of getting them involved in household thing, but also a really nice way of connecting, because we do it together like they do one one meal a week. And we did it for we've done it in three periods.
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And then we got busy and stuff.
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We've just reintroduced it again. And they're older. But interesting, you say the empathy thing or the understanding thing. We've had issues with coming to the dinner table on time, I don't know if any, also has Garius boys slash children coming to the dinner table when they're in the middle of a game can be an interesting process.
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And we've tried various, you know, various methods of making that work for us. And what works for us, After many failed attempts is having a time that we this is when we have dinner, of course that can change. But then, you know we we say and that works best for us. Rather than give me a 20 minute warning or that kind of thing. That might work for some people. But when my eldest who's the big gamer, it when it's his turn to make dinner. He does not like it when people are late. And he does not like it when the other his siblings are cooking when it's not ready on time. Which is very interesting. He has no problem keeping us waiting. But maybe that will change I think if that has changed, because he's realized, actually, it's really quite annoying when when you've cooked and it's cold and nobody's there.
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Yes. And this is all part of that whole process. And there's some crunching gears. Yeah, while we're doing it,
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they're never going to go up.
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And your point is really, really useful.
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Because Jenny who wrote The question is much better to assign chores ahead of time.
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Because if you ambush your child, you're going to get that instant response. We did this in parent gym, we used to sit people down and make them write out a family chart of the chores that needed to be done on a weekly basis and then allocated them and people could choose them but somebody had to do it.
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People had to do things and it was part of the contract.
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There's a great contract that I've taken from a website, which I can post on the podcast notes that you can use if you want your teenager to sign up to something and say, okay, there were penalties if I don't actually do these chores. offer them some flexibility. Don't Don't say has to be done by this exact time. Always. You can pay commission so you can have it for example, with my kids.
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There's a base level of what's expected of them for their allowances, but I'll pay to have my car washed because I'm going to go and pay someone else to do that. Anyway. So that's that's, I have had them come back and say oh, look You just pay me an extra five pounds. And I say no, that's the you know, I get a professional car. I'm not going to give you extra just because I love you forget it, you know, do the job. And let's be honest, yours isn't going to be as good.
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If we buying everything for your children, if we avoid giving them everything, hold things back so that they know that they're not just sort of a free a free ride. Because I remember being a teenager, my goodness, I would work it, you know, there's always Oh, sup has finished Winnie the loo.
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Yeah, those two he's always in the loop. And yeah, the expectation again, the expectation that they're not going to jump for joy, and that they probably if you have more than one kid will go I mean, I say to the dishwasher, and I'll do the top at the bottom, he's done more than me. She said that's just part of it. And I used to I used to find that really annoying and resist it, you know, why can't use gone with it. But actually, they kind of quite enjoy that weird banter.
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You just have to switch your head out. Just walk away, walk away, you guys deal with it. I just expect it done when I'm and you can withhold things. So you can say, like gaming, totally, you can go and game once this is done. But so you can decide when to do it.
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It's not a problem. But you're not going to go and do the other fun stuff until this stuff is done. Because this is part of an always this is part of being a family or is not all about it's not about punishment it's not and actually explaining to them that these are life skills. And if they don't know how to do these things, is going to hit them very hard at some point in their life.
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Yeah, I can feel that I also get caught up in and we've talked about this before I get caught up in sometimes I like doing the things you do.
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You laugh at me for this. But sometimes it's really like it's part of I feel it's part of nurturing to go and do something I know that they can. They're quite capable of doing such and such. But actually I want to do it for them as a way as I could gesture is just sort of helping them out. So then I choose to do that. And I don't think that necessarily needs to
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get in the way.
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I do think that needs to change because that's about you gaining joy from something the other
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things, but it's it's very much part of the of the way I approach it, which means it's sort of a bit more ebb and flow in and how much I get them to do things. Yeah.
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And I'll do other things that show my love for my children. The other thing that I've realized is that I have two very different children and one of them loves cooking.
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She's she'll come home at the weekend. And without me even having to ask, she'll go to the store cupboard and start coming up with recipes and things to put together. She's always the person first person to stand up from the table to start clearing the plates. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And well, I think she empathizes with my situation. And I think the other one is much, much less interesting. And and I'm not going to blame her because I think she's a normal teenager.
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But the risk is that I'm letting one gain all the skills and experience and the other. So I'm looking at it from that perspective, what you're actually doing is the other one's missing out. So this weekend, when one of them's away, the the one that's always mucking in the other one, I'm going to get to come with me to the builder's merchant to get some sealant put on the bath trap, where we've had a leak.
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And I'm going to get her to do it brilliant in the same way that I taught the other one how to copy us a willow tree that we've got. And she looked at it this year and said look at it, mommy's beautiful. And I said, Yeah, you did that. And it gives them this sense of purpose, a sense that they can do something other than just schoolwork, and flicking through digital media.
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I haven't as I've said, you know, done it as much as I'd like to have done. But we do have have the moments and especially now when they're older. And it's a cooking particular it's a really beautiful way of connecting.
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Because I know now particularly one of them or two of them.
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They're quite capable of cooking your dinner quite capable of it.
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I mean, you just have to have to read and turn the oven off at the end.
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We've helped take it out before.
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Yeah, we don't always do that. But it's a really beautiful way of connecting and, and talking and having that time where you're actually doing something with your hands and your you know, taste this or do whatever. And it doesn't have to be really complicated. I mean, we did a pass debate the other day, which took no time like really easy.
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I love that. I absolutely love that. And I know my ex boyfriend was brought up by his grandma learning to cook which meant he was a very confident Kirk. I've got friends who they cook with their sons, and as a result, there's an area that they feel very confident in. And what a gift. What a lovely bonding experience.
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Sure, we're quite there yet. It's coming.
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How do you organize chores in your house?
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Do you have any great tips for us? We'd love to hear from you.
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We can be found on Facebook, Instagram, and you can email us at help at teenagers untangled.com. Next time we'll take a look at the way in which COVID has impact To the lives of our teenagers. To be honest, I thought mine had been fine until it was suggested as a topic for us to cover. And when I mentioned it to my teens, that's when they really opened up. And our listener question comes from Simon who says, sleep seems to have become a big issue in our house. Should I let my teenager sleep in at the weekend or keep to a regular schedule. That's it for now. And in the meantime, if you'd like to learn more about mindfulness, both one to ones and courses you can find Susie on Instagram and her details on Susie as the mindfulness.co.uk Bye for now
