March 10, 2025
133: How to plan ahead for an empty nest that's full of possibility
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Empty nest syndrome is real, and can be very painful to navigate. I've already discussed it with Susie, including ideas for how we can manage our feelings in a positive way to help us move on.
- https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/empty-nest-how-to-cope-when-your-teen-moves-out-also-manners-what-are-they-and-what-should-we-te/
But are we looking at it in the wrong way? Change management specialist, Hanna Bankier, hates the term empty nest because it has such negative connotations. 'How can the nest be empty if I'm still in it?'
She encourages us mothers to take a pro-active approach to that next stage of life by planning ahead from as early as when our kids turn tween and teen.
In this discussion, Hanna helps us think differently about this life stage, explains the key mistakes we make and which areas need focus, and how to plan for the nest stage of our life in a really positive, life-affirming way.
Hanna's top five tips:
- Start early: Begin preparing for this transition during your child's teenage years by gradually shifting your parenting style from hands-on to mentorship.
- Create a personal plan: Map out your own identity and interests beyond motherhood. Use Hannah's exercise of drawing a circle with your name in the center and identifying activities that energize you.
- Build a supportive community: Cultivate female friendships and join groups or activities that interest you. These connections are crucial for emotional support and personal growth.
- Communicate openly with your child: Have honest conversations about how your relationship will evolve, setting expectations and creating a new dynamic as they become independent adults.
- Embrace the joy of this new chapter: Recognize that this is not an ending, but a new beginning. Celebrate your success in raising an independent child and look forward to the opportunities ahead for both of you.
The key is to view this transition as a positive opportunity for personal growth and rediscovery, rather than a loss.
Free tool:
https://www.birdylauncher.com/freeoffer
Hanna Bankier:
https://www.birdylauncher.com/
- To check out the experiences JENZA offers, visit: www.jenza.com
- The JENZA Travel Group consists of heritage and dedicated Summer Camp USA brand BUNAC, Irish youth work and travel brand, USIT, and youth-led work and travel brand JENZA. That's over 60 years of experience.
- Founded in 2023, JENZA arranges flexible working holidays and international internships in Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, the USA and UK.
Thank you so much for your support.
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I don't have medical training so please seek the advice of a specialist if you're not coping.
My email is teenagersuntangled@gmail.com
My website has a blog, searchable episodes, and ways to contact us:
www.teenagersuntangled.com
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Susie is available for a free 15 minute consultation, and has a great blog:
www.amindful-life.co.uk
Transcript
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Rachel, hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now I'm on quite a few social media platforms, primarily to connect with other parents, and I see so many mums talking about the difficulty of managing the change from full time caring for a little child to the point where they don't seem to need us anymore. One woman wrote, it took me almost five years to fully overcome emptiness syndrome. Who else has found it or is finding this difficult?
00:00:34.619 --> 00:01:07.409
And another said, I'm happy to see my kids doing well and moving on with their lives, but I also feel a bit left behind. I go through these moments of complete joy for them, and then moments of what feel like they've just gone forever. Now, today's guest spent over 20 years in television and left to found the Working Solutions Group in 2017 focused on guiding individuals through both professional and personal change, and more recently, she set up birdie launcher to help mums find joy and purpose, rather than feeling they have an empty nest.
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:08.939
Now, Hannah, welcome.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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Now, I'd love to start with the term empty nest. What do you think of it?
00:01:17.069 --> 00:02:41.310
Oh, I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan for a few reasons of as a feminist, It really pains me to think that we how's the nest empty, if I'm still in it? Yes. So that does not sit right with me. It's it's emblematic of this idea in the in the Western culture, that as Mom, we're once we are no longer a reproductive age, we are sort of discarded and no longer important. And I want to be important in my life. So that is one reason. The other is when I hear the term empty nest, at least, what comes up for me is I picture something dried out, shoveled, maybe a leftover feather here and there, and little poop maybe, and the kids are gone, and that's not how I want to picture my home. I want my home to be a warm, welcoming, connected place, and a place where people want to land and spend time. So I want to do this reframe so I I'm leaving that charm behind. And thirdly, it's also because I believe that this process of birdie launching starts much sooner. It's not just when your last kid leaves the nest. It this is a process that starts whether you have your first, your last, or your only, and ideally, it starts already when your little bird is still in the same nest as you.
00:02:37.469 --> 00:02:57.719
So I'm reframing it. I'm going with birdie launcher. So in that process, we as mamas, we get to launch our little ones as we should. This is why we have raised them. They're supposed to take off and lead their own lives. And in that process, we also get to stretch our own wings and relaunch ourselves.
00:02:58.289 --> 00:03:10.439
I love all the ways you're describing it. And I love it because that's very much what the podcast is about. It's about positive spins on things, rather than making us feel terrible about our situation.
00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:31.139
It's interesting because you talk about how it is not the end of the process that actually it can start much sooner. And I suppose when people have a kind of a tween and a teenager, they often say, Oh, my goodness, this stages feels very different. And in a way, it kind of starts, is the change management, isn't it?
00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:41.280
And it sort of can start then. I mean, how would you advise parents to go about thinking about, you know, not empty nest syndrome, how to sort of progress towards being someone who's launching their birds into the world?
00:03:41.520 --> 00:04:04.800
Yes, thank you for that question. It's exactly to your point. We start ideally, much, much sooner. Here in the States, you know, we have high schools four years and some moms come to me and right, like the spring term of high senior year, when they're about to go off and they're like, I don't know if they can cook. Can they balance a checkbook? Like, and I was like, whoa. Let's start sooner.
00:04:01.139 --> 00:04:39.209
Let's start sooner. So mamas come to me as early as junior year, ideally sooner than that, and really start creating a plan. This is a major life transition, much like when your little kid came into your life, however they became your child, and that was a major life transition, and here you're facing the another major life transition in your parenting, and that, again, starts Much, much sooner. So how do you start shifting your parenting? How do you start co creating a new version of your relationship with this emerging adult?
00:04:35.459 --> 00:04:44.040
There's there's a lot more that is, and it's so much easier to do when we're under the same roof.
00:04:45.689 --> 00:04:50.819
We all know that every time you try to shift or change a relationship, it takes time.
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You're going to mess up, you're going to revert back to old patterns and behaviors, and then we can look at them and just have them in front of you. It's so much easier than when on the other side of the country or they go out.
00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:07.170
To whether they go after college or university or they leave for whatever the reason, it's so much easier to be done when they're still at home.
00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:14.759
So when you're talking about making a plan, what would you what would that seem like? How would somebody go about making a plan, and when do they start?
00:05:14.970 --> 00:05:28.410
Yes, yes, all of that, at least, having a plan just that concept, right? Many, many parents and so many adults, we make more plans for a trip to, you know, Asia, maybe, or Europe from the US than we do for this major life transition.
00:05:28.769 --> 00:06:29.959
So really being aware of it, whenever we have a plan, we can create a place of confidence and competence. So what are those different shifts that are going to come into play? You're going to have a dramatically shifting relationship with your soon flown bird. You're going to also, if you have other siblings at home, those relationships are going to shift. Yes, very much, partnered or an co partner. If you're a two household family, that relationship is going to shift. And maybe most importantly, the relationship you have with yourself is going to shift, because you're going to go through a big shift and transition in your own identity as a mom and as a woman, and those relationships need to I think we are. We're better off when we tend to them and we go into it with greater intentionality. And then, when I work with clients, I have a three part framework that I use.
00:06:26.540 --> 00:06:37.459
I call it soar, because we do want to get you to soaring. And in that is this process of, you know, your kids gonna leave.
00:06:34.220 --> 00:06:55.060
You've probably been a hands on parent for 1820, years, being very involved. You keep tabs on your kids. You know what's going on. You get reports from grades, from school. You have all of this. You get to hug them every day, if you're lucky, some of them will shrug off your head, but don't want them, right?
00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:59.680
And there's gonna be a tremendous sense of loss and grief.
00:07:01.060 --> 00:07:17.399
And our culture doesn't do loss and grief very well. No, we hate it, right? So we want to just get get going and go off to the next thing and take on more responsibility, and just let ourselves feel our feelings and sit with the grief, and just sort of this is happening.
00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:50.560
Because I believe that once we it's easy to move into the next chapter if we get opportunity to close the last. So we sit with the grief. We allow ourselves to feel our feelings. Ideally, we're in community with other women going through something, you know, the similar transition. And then we move into the relief part where, oh, wait a minute, there's all these things I don't need to do anymore. We have transferred not only part of the adult thing to our children, but we also shifted. And I don't pick up socks from the floor anymore.
00:07:52.120 --> 00:08:15.660
Appointments I don't I can go to sleep and fall asleep because I'm not waiting for them to come home and check in curfews or being out at two o'clock in the morning, whatever it is that's going on, maybe you get a little shitty attitude. Maybe there's some door slamming like all of that. So shifting from the the grief to the relief, and then we go into the joy, which is the next few decades of your lives.
00:08:17.009 --> 00:08:57.299
And you talked about the different categories of things that we kind of need in our plan we need to pay attention to. And so, for example, one of them is, is actually your partner. And I think a lot of us, as we grow and we put huge amounts of work and effort into our own children and developing them because they need it. I remember a friend of mine saying, Oh, my wife just says, my kids get attention because they're the ones who need it, but then you have to, you're still going to be left with that person, hopefully, that you raise them with. So how do you, you know, in terms of just making a plan, do you write down all these different things that we need to think about and then work through each one?
00:08:57.299 --> 00:08:58.350
What? How do you do it?
00:08:58.649 --> 00:09:01.830
Yeah, I think that's a great start is name it.
00:09:01.830 --> 00:09:54.419
You know, in coaching, right? We say, name it, then you can tame it. So first, just doing a big brain dump of like, what are all these changes, shifts, and especially in your partner relationship, we see in the US, this, what is referred to as the graying divorce, is going up dramatically, and the number of people that choose to part ways once the kids have left and the nest is going up. I think it's 30 to 40% it's the largest growing category of divorces in the States. So if we have been hands on parenting, you know the CEO and the CFO and the CEO of all the things family and a lot of women put a tremendous amount of mental load into getting the family and the organization all of that afloat and keep on moving forward. And then one day, you look up and who are you looking at? Is that a roommate?
00:09:54.840 --> 00:10:00.000
Is this still a connected romantic partner? Is the Do you have the same.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:11.250
Idea what your life's going to look like once the kids, kids have flown so tending to it, being aware, having those conversations, ideally again, before it is happening.
00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:43.909
Right? When we make a plan and we're prepared and we create awareness, we usually come out so much stronger on the other side, yeah, I saw a really fantastic tip by a coach who was saying that the thing to do with your partner is you have, again, an annual plan, and you say you have, okay, you have your date night, which most people try, try to have, but then every quarter, you actually have a night away with them. And then every at year, you have something big that you've planned together that's not to do with your kids. And of course, this takes money, but it doesn't need to be expensive.
00:10:40.610 --> 00:10:50.960
You can actually, you know, and this is the time, because the kids need less less hands on work, and so you can start sort of building that back into your life, can't you
00:10:51.440 --> 00:12:17.480
absolutely. And while they need less hands on, you know, they also need to be able to be adults, for you to be able to go away for a weekend, and they have to feed themselves, and they had to clean up the kitchen, and they have to get places and do it is an amazingly good opportunity to start transferring these adulting responsibility. Yes, absolutely. And one of the things you mentioned when I was reading some of the stuff on your website was this problem where people don't evolve their parenting, so they're still parenting the way that their child was they did when their child was 10. And that's a whole podcast is about kind of, how do we manage that transition to a sort of different type of parenting, which I think can be real, really hard, but I guess that that's also, you know, negotiating with your kids. How are we going to be because when they start to leave. That's a different thing altogether, isn't it? Yes, that, and this is one of the mistakes that so many parents and moms are making, is that we sort of found our groove, ideally, in how we parent, and then we stick with it. And that's not gonna work, right? The way you parent when there are two is vastly different than when they're 10, which is different when they're 18 or so and about to take off and leave. So going from Mama to mama mentor is this tremendously big, important shift. And to your point, so hard because it means we have to let go of the control.
00:12:18.658 --> 00:13:18.359
And so many of us parents associate parenting with control. You know, pick up your sex, wear this green shirt, do these things, do your chores, and you're not gonna ideally move in with them wherever they're going, whether go to university, wherever they're taking off, you're not gonna move in with them. So that is again, about managing your own anxieties. I usually say that parenting is about 80% managing our own anxieties. And sure, yes, oh, sure, right. And that's even more true now, because now you know they have a car and they drive off and you don't know what they're doing, and you are not going to be able to be there. So how do you manage your anxieties to be able to let go of that control, to actually allow them to stretch their wings and watch them belly flop a time or two, make those mistakes, and not come in and constantly rescuing them.
00:13:15.119 --> 00:13:23.538
Because you know, if you've done your job well, then they're ready to be adults, and
00:13:23.538 --> 00:13:50.499
at what stage do you think it's most effective to start talking to them about, like, how would you like our relationship to be as you move forward towards adulthood? I mean, I've got two bonus daughters, and that's a still evolving relationship where, you know, when one of them came home and lived with us for just a brief time, but it was, it was so interesting, so interesting under starting to understand each other in a different way.
00:13:47.078 --> 00:13:56.979
And it was quite good with us, but I think it can be very difficult time. So when do you start having those discussions about like, how is our relationship going to be?
00:13:57.220 --> 00:14:11.820
Yes, I had with my oldest. So he's a third year engineering student in Massachusetts. So he's on the other side of the country. I'm in California, and we started having those conversations his in the fall of his senior year.
00:14:11.820 --> 00:14:18.480
So his last year, what? And at the first he just looked at me, it's like, Mom, what are you talking about? What do you mean?
00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:27.559
And I was like, Yeah, you know, I will always be your mom, right? So there will always be a hierarchy difference, if you will. I will always be your mom.
00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:54.220
I will always be your safety, your security, your point of your lighthouse, if you will, and but as you are becoming more and more like growing up and emerging adult and soon adult, we won't have a peer to peer relationship, necessarily, but we're going to it's going to look and feel different. So what do you want it to look and feel like? How do we want to be with each other? How do we handle conflicts when you're on the other side of the country?
00:14:54.519 --> 00:15:44.259
Because we will, you know, we love each other. We and part of loving each other means that we're going to mess up. Or we're gonna, you know, do or say things that gonna hurt. So how are we gonna handle that? What kind of channel or intensity or frequency or communication do we want to have? Of course, I'm used to seeing you every day, and I'm gonna miss you terribly, and somehow, it's not about me, right? You're about to go off and do your thing and make a bunch of new friends and start new activities and create your own life over there. And how do we still feel like we're connected? So how do we keep them close when they're far away? And part of that is really having the conversations. It's not going to just happen, right?
00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:45.759
And we
00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:55.179
need to lead those, don't we? Because the kids don't tend to. They just wait. We sometimes parents wait and they think, Well, my kid didn't reach out to me. No, no, it's I see. I think it's our job,
00:15:55.899 --> 00:16:56.918
yeah, without becoming overbearing, because that's another problem. It's just like, if you're calling and like checking and like hi and tell me, and you know it's like, and then again, of course, each kid is very, very different, so you have to also tune in to what does this unique child need, and what kind of scaffolding and support? And I have two children that are very, very different, and one is just like, I'm off to the races, and the other one's going to need a little different way of communicating and feeling that bond and that connection, and it's going to look and feel different. But again, if we don't name it, we don't tame it, so if we don't have the conversations, then how are we going to co create? And I think that was what really tickled my kid, you know, at 17, I was like, Hey, kiddo, you get to co create this. It's us together, dictating. It's not me telling I have some ideas. You know, obviously, I'm a coach. I've been doing a lot of reflection over this. I have relationships.
00:16:53.918 --> 00:17:30.798
You know, my family of origin are all in Sweden, so i we i have experience of how to keep close when we're far away, but this is our unique relationship, and he loved it like we had so much fun we were playing around with different titles. Am I going to be an advisor, consultant? Am I going to be a sounding board? Am I going to be your coach or a mentor? And he's like, No, Mom, you're a coach at work, my coach. And I'm like, Great, let's figure out something else that's going to work for us. And now we're tight. We're really, really close. So that
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:52.779
fantastic. So coming back to this, the identity shift for the mum, you know, and I think we're focusing on, I think, I think this does happen for dads? There are some dads who really feel this viscerally. But I think for a lot of women, it's particularly, particularly them who land up with this, this identity shift.
00:17:48.819 --> 00:18:27.559
And you know, when you your your house seems empty and or quieter, and you tied up your entire identity with this. You know, I think when mums have worked through it quite even mums that I know mothers who've worked all the way through their kids, but they've realized that they can ramp up the work now and then they're looking at the work and thinking, Oh, well, actually, is that the sort of the way I want my working life to carry on, or do I need to shift it? So this is quite a big shift. So how would you talk to a mother about how she should go about thinking about her own identity. And again, I guess this should happen quite early in the teen years.
00:18:28.579 --> 00:18:42.700
Yes, everything that we do, you know, ahead of time helps, right? Because then we can build a response as opposed to just a reaction. So thinking about it, imagining, you know what, do I want it again, to look and feel like?
00:18:43.299 --> 00:18:59.680
And so many of us has poured in so much of our identity, our mental load, our time and energy, our love, into these children, and rightfully so. And now there's this opportunity to lift your gaze a little bit and come out. And what is my impact?
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:56.380
Where do I want to have an impact? Where do I want to give back? Or what do I want my contribution to be? And it could be staying in the same profession and ramping up, taking up, you know, bigger leadership role, or whatever that looks like, where it could be something completely different in the US. It's a very, very heavy work, identity culture as well. So I usually encourage mamas to look at what else is out there. And instead of having going from the mom identity to the work identity, you could have many, many different identities. So do you want to be a mentor at an nonprofit organization. Do you want to cultivate a garden? Do you want to take up sailing like and in that also really harnessing on to the community?
00:19:50.200 --> 00:20:02.460
Need each other more than ever, and what happens when the kid.
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:39.079
Sleeve is, do you no longer have those touch points? You don't drop off and pick up at school or at, you know, sports events or dances or whatever it is. So what? How do you create your community and your friendships and female friendships, I believe, are gold. We need those desperately. And to your point, yes, dads also obviously will miss their kids, but the way that moms are usually the center of the emotional labor and regulation in the household, it just it feels different for us, for many of us, I shouldn't generalize too much.
00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:50.799
It's interesting because I've read Priya Parker, who talks about gatherings and why we gather, and how to create a good gathering, and I'd started thinking about that quite a lot.
00:20:47.319 --> 00:21:00.099
And what's wonderful is some of my friends, girlfriends, who I don't really know that well, but they've in the local sort of area, have started saying, Oh, should we have a ladies get together on a Wednesday night?
00:21:00.099 --> 00:21:28.519
We can all just chat. And then I've started on Friday, there's something in in Switzerland called Apple where you just pop around to the neighbors, and you make it a really short period of time, so it's just between, say, six and six and eight, so that you just have a drink, isn't it's not big. It's not you're not having to do anything elaborate with some snacks, and it just means you catch up. And I really love these kind of I think, I think what's happened is, in my past, everything felt like it had to be quite weighty.
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:40.400
With it was quite a big dinner party culture and and then we went through COVID, and people stopped communicating and spending time together because it all became so we got out of practice, and then it was really hard. And you thought, I'm I just don't know what I'm doing.
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:55.240
So I love these small things that we can do where we just invite a few people around and make it really simple and get back into that habit. And then, you know, so you're just in contact with each other and keeping up with each other's lives. And then those friendships can grow from there.
00:21:55.539 --> 00:21:55.960
Yeah,
00:21:56.019 --> 00:21:58.779
it's beautiful.
00:21:56.019 --> 00:22:25.160
Yeah, we have to come back and flex those muscles, I think. And also, then, when we're no longer need to cook for, you know, all these hungry teenagers and do these other things, we have the space and the freedom to and finding those connections is crucial. I think the numerous studies they're showing, the female friendships is the one thing that's going to take you through and really evolve and make your more content and impacts your health and impacts your happiness. So we need those desperately. Yeah, and
00:22:25.579 --> 00:23:14.460
what would you say to parents? So we you say that these, there are these stages that you go through, and what would you say to parents, where they where they got to the point where they're looking at their kids and they are just at the end of their school years, probably going on to university, or they've come out of university, and their kids just haven't really managed to sort of take off yet, and they're starting to really worry about their child's future. Because you think, Oh, I mean, Susie and I, my co host, had, we've been talking about how exciting it is when our kids go, we're going to go on a world trip, and it's all going to be really fun. But then you go, actually, I've got a boomerang kid who's now back at home, so you think you're going to launch them, but maybe that's actually not how it pans out.
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:30.019
How would you because it's this change, isn't it? So how would you talk to mums about how to cope with that fear, the fear that maybe your kid isn't going to manage as well as you had hoped. You start out there teen years thinking, Oh, it's going to be great, or I'm hoping, and then it's not looking that great.
00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:47.799
I had a conversation with a mama about that just the other week, because she's like, Hannah, I got to go through the grief and then the relief, but I didn't get to joy, because there is a boomerang kid at home back and which is very different, right?
00:23:44.200 --> 00:24:11.519
This child is definitely her child, and will always be, but no longer 18. So a few years have gone by, so this person thinks that they are an adult, but are obviously not fully adulting because they're back home, and so what does that look and feel like? So the fear there is Yeah, and we just don't know.
00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:44.319
We don't know what's going to happen. We can hope and we can plan, and we can prepare, and we can have these conversations, and then life be lifeing. And you just don't know what's gonna come your way. So I would say, and we had some of that during COVID as well, when all of a sudden there was no reason for the kids to be off at university and college and sitting alone at a dorm and zooming. So they came home and a few mamas, then I was like, Whoa. Okay, so we need to, like, Who is this person? Is it a roommate? No, is it a parent?
00:24:44.319 --> 00:25:01.680
It's a kid. It's so again, making everything explicit, like talk about it, talk about it, talk about it. And create these expectations. Yes, you can live at home. And then here are the things that we expect from you.
00:24:57.940 --> 00:25:11.940
I. And you know, your dad and I, we shop and cook and clean and, you know, do all of these things, and then so part of that is going to be your responsibility. And then creating a plan with your kid.
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:40.039
How are you going to launch what it? What is it that holds you stuck? And it may be something that you're equipped to do as parents. And for many parents, they need more help than that, yeah, but to answer the question around the fear of it is really that right? How do we manage our fear? And because our biggest fears as parents is that our kids are not going to do well, and we know as mamas, we can only be as well as our least well child.
00:25:40.880 --> 00:26:27.740
Mm, hmm, absolutely. Absolutely. And what I again, coming back to that sort of we're getting to that stage where we're reflecting. I have spoken to mums who okay, they they're in that stage where their kids have moved on. And I think some are hit with regret or guilt. They start to think, oh, maybe I made the wrong decisions there. I didn't and these things weren't right. So I think part of this change management isn't just, you know, launching and having a really fun future. It's actually having to manage the feelings that maybe things you did, some things that weren't you now look back and you think, Oh, I wish I hadn't done that. Maybe it would have been different. Is this part of the process that when you're dealing with your moms, when you're talking to them, yeah,
00:26:27.740 --> 00:26:51.099
for sure, I think there's not a parent that walks under the sun that haven't made or done some stuff that we're like, that was not the best version. Or, you know, we used to have a swear jar when the kids were tiny, and I was like, huh, maybe we should have a therapy jar for every time I do something. Yes, they're gonna need some help in the future.
00:26:51.099 --> 00:26:58.660
Like, are we saving for college, or should we be saving for therapy? So I think in general, like, there's no perfect parent.
00:26:58.900 --> 00:27:29.240
We all mess up. We all get to do you know, as Maya Angelou would say, when we know better, we do better. Yeah, so how do we evolve and change and adapt, as well as parents? Because we also know that there's nobody in the world that can trigger us as our kids. Can they find every button that we have, and all the uncleared stuff, all the goo that we came with that we hadn't cleared out before becoming parents, oh, they will find it.
00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:34.339
So will there be regret?
00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:37.039
Probably I've done some stuff that was not the best parenting I would not model
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:38.480
Absolutely.
00:27:39.740 --> 00:28:19.740
And when it comes to guilt, it's very interesting, especially as women, because we've been socialized into feeling guilty when that emotion is actually misplaced. So there's times when we're like, ooh, that doesn't feel good, because maybe you actually set a boundary, maybe you spoke up for yourself, and we're internalizing the receivers reaction to us holding a boundary, and then we feel guilty that they are not feeling good, and that's not our job as parents.
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:21.079
Interesting
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:41.319
our job as parents is not to be our tweens or our teens best friend. Our jobs as parents, as I see it, is to be steadfast and loving and holding boundaries and raising the bar and challenging them.
00:28:35.779 --> 00:29:07.500
Right? We can't prepare the path for their child. Rather, we want to prepare the child for the path. Yeah, again, you're not going to move in with them when they go off to college or into their first home. So how are they going to be able to hold that what kind of level of resilience do they have, and what have we given them? And that, of course, is something that starts, ideally long before the last couple of months when they're at home. And so
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:49.420
yes, and that's a gift as a gift to the child as well, because I know that I've spoken to kids who are very frustrated when their parents still feel this dependence on them, and they desperately need them to come home and, you know, be their emotional prop. So just, you know, finally, just looking at how we can reinvent ourselves, that sort of joy section of it, and you mentioned there are, you know, things we can do, like joining gardening groups or being part of the community or traveling. How would you go? Like, what are your steps that you would give if I said, right tomorrow, I'm going to sit down and I'm going to focus on this, and it's going to be really positive. I'm going to have some positive stuff to think about. What would you say?
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:49.420
Yes.
00:29:49.839 --> 00:30:16.799
So a lot of it is just really, really thinking big, right? If we think about the average age of an empty nester, or when the LA. Kid moves out of the home in the US, the moms are about 51 and if you look at life expectancy for women, it's over 80. So you have another three decades worth of life to had. And in my case, you know, I'm sturdy Swedish stock.
00:30:16.799 --> 00:31:32.480
My people live for forever. So I'm looking at probably another 40 years. So when we think about what is that those chapters that we're going to write in our own book of life, how do you want to write them? What do you want to put in there? How do you want to write it? So that's a novel you want to pick up, and it's yummy and juicy and life affirming and beautiful and lots of joy. So how whatever that looks like for you is not kind of what it looks like for me? Obviously, um, there's going to be some commonalities, but there's a we have different ideas and different interests and different values. So I usually sit with my ladies and we start looking at holistically, putting your name in the middle of a piece of paper. And then you think about all the different identities that you have as of today. You know a mom, a sister, a partner, a business owner, a coach. You know however you are engaged, wherever you are engaged, in your community and in your life. And then I say, take two different color markers and then circle in one color the things that is energizing, that fills your cup, and then you take another color marker of the things that drain you.
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:34.400
Oh, I like that.
00:31:35.420 --> 00:35:09.900
And then just look, what is that puzzle starts taking shape of like, what are the pieces that jump out at you, that where you're like, oh, this fills my cup. I feel so energized. And we have that with people, at least I do in my life. There are some people and I'm like, No, I'm just drained and exhausted. I didn't take a nap. And then there are people that I walk away with, just like, Yes, that. So what are the people and the places and the situation and the context that bring out the best in you, the way you want to show up in the world. And I think some of it is like going back, just like, Okay, I used to dance when I was young, pre kids, so now, as my youngest is about to launch, do I want to dance again? Maybe I do, and maybe I don't, because the version of me that's here on this earth now is 20 years later. I'm not the version of me that was then. So this idea of like leaving my mommy on the side and going backwards, I don't know if that's gonna serve you, because you have a lot of lived experiences, things have shaped you, and you are in a different place that you are now, not only because you've been a mom for 20 or so years, but when you're 30 and you're 50, those are two different versions of you. So now you get to build the next you know, 6070, 8090, and looking at those things and just thinking that okay, where what is it juicy, and some are so some of us have been not taking us any time aside during this hands on parenting chapter of their lives that they don't even know. Well, they don't. They did. It's like, I don't know I like it just feels like I'm my limb that is is equivalent on my child is being ripped off of my body, and there's nothing here. And then it really can feel like that empty, shiveled mess that we want to, you know, move away from. So working with somebody through this process really is helpful. And then also, to your point, going together and being in community and CO, you know, commiserating or planning together with other mamas. And I think the other part that is so crucial to remember is, you know, most of us in this face of our lives, we've had some grief and some loss in other areas, and we know that grief isn't one and done, right? It comes and it goes and it changes taste and flavors, and something reminds you, and then you might feel super happy and in the relief phase for a chunk of time, and then you go in, like I did the other day, I went into my oldest child's room, and I just sat on his bed, and both marveled over that this room has never been this tidy, probably ever, you know, since he left. And also really, really missed him, you know, missed his energy, missing him coming home and giving me hug and checking in, and his additions to the dinner conversation and Reno hold both of it right? It is the both. And I am so excited for him where he is in his life, and he gets to stretch his wings. And it's fantastic. And I miss him like crazy. Yeah, and I think that is also really modeling to our children, right? We tell them, It's a big world out there.
00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:36.739
Well, it's out there for you too. You don't want to be that resentful, you know, dried up mom in this dried up empty nest where you're outsourcing your emotional labor onto your children, like no, get yourself a graduation cake. Celebrate you. They they have left.
00:35:31.340 --> 00:35:42.639
They're leaving. You scored. You did it, and be joyous in that.
00:35:36.739 --> 00:35:51.820
And then let them do their thing and be there as their lighthouse, if that's an image that is resonates with you, and then you get to light up your own life. I
00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:55.000
love that.
00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:59.619
Hannah, that what a great way of summing it all up. I love that.
00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:16.980
Thank you so much. I have your link in the podcast notes. It's also on my website. You'll have all the information in your background how to get hold of you. I think you've got a little freebie for the listeners that we'll put into the link as well, if just so that people who are listening, if they're kind of walking their dogs and thinking, wait, wait, how do people get hold of you? Yes,
00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:42.699
thank you. So I, my company and my website is birdie launcher, so birdie with a Y and birdie launcher.com and yes, go there and do. Birdie launcher, forward slash, free offer, and that is my free guide to you, so you can start evolving your parenting and CO, creating that new version of your relationship with your soon flown kiddo and going from Mama to mama mentor, Hannah
00:36:42.699 --> 00:36:45.880
banker, thank you so much. Thank you, Rachel.
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:46.000
You
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