Transcript
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Music, hello and welcome to teenagers.
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Untangled the audio hug for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters.
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Hi there. I'm Susie Asli, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist and musician and mother of three teenagers, two of them are twins. Now.
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Suzy, looking back, Were you prepared for parenting? You know, when you before you had your kids?
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Well, I thought I was, but no,
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you can't possibly know what you know. No, even so you thought you were I definitely wasn't. I was completely unrealistic. I had absolutely no idea what was involved, because I was a career woman, yeah, and so for me, it just kind of just had a baby and then you got on with things.
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Yeah,
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you know, I didn't really know what I was doing at all. I thought I knew a little bit, but yes, it turns out I didn't Yes.
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So I think that what happens in parenting is we have stages like the before parenting stage, when we think we know what we're doing, and then we start with the child and each stage, because there are stages, feel different absolutely and so what I wanted to do was like, not dwell on the early stages, because we've we're done with those. Most people listening to this podcast and not having to go through that right now. But what I'd like to do is talk about the stages of parenting, because you mentioned that you would you know you're in another stage now, because, of course, your oldest has left home and he's got a different a different stage. Have you ever heard of Ellen Galinsky? No, ooh. She's amazing. She's the co founder of the Families and Work Institute in America, and a pro dig just author in this area, she identified six stages of parenthood. Some say there were five. Others say there were four. We're going to focus mainly on the teen and young adult stage, but we'll talk about those. Let's start though with a nugget. Do you have anything that you can share with us? Yeah,
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yeah. Actually, my nugget is something we were just speaking about. It's turned into my nugget, which is, over the last couple of months, I've had some mold in the house, which has been not very fun, and I had this horrible cough for a long time, and it's actually my daughter that was, Mum, you need to get that checked out, Mom, you need to get that checked out. Go to the doctor. And it felt like, oh, like a roller so lovely. She can be quite bossy.
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So I went to the doctor. Thank God for bossy jeans. It was really sweet. And she, you know, she's, she was genuinely concerned. Get it checked out, Mom.
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Come on. And it was a good thing to check it out. Yeah, suffering, yeah, on the way out now.
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But yeah, it was very sweet, yeah.
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And I love it, because my daughter recently said, Oh, Mommy, why do you just keep losing the keys in the house? And I said, Well, you know, I've got a key standard.
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Why don't we just have something on the consult table? And I thought, why don't we have Why haven't I done that? Yet they come up with these great ideas.
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And you go, wow, you're actually contributing to my life. This is fantastic. So no, I love they love you, recognizing Yes, yes, it's a great relationship. Mine is thinking again about the the episode we did on cancel culture and this extraordinary level of judgment and gossip and small group mentality that comes with being a teenager and comes with being in these institutional settings where there's nowhere to go, you know, they're all in it together. And it just made me think that, you know, if only that young man in that setting was surrounded by people who had been taught a different way of doing things, and what I mean by that is just being able to say to our kids when they tell you something and you go, wow, because I love that. I love my kids. My kids tell me all sorts of gossip, I always go, Wow, that's so gosh, they did that.
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Oh, and it's fun. It's kind of fun. People love these. This is why tabloid newspapers sell.
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This is why magazines that had these stories in cell and then just saying, so what did the other person say? And if they say, Well, you know, they we know what they think, and you say, well, but do you so I'm really curious, because I didn't, and I still don't, even though I work on it, have the imagination to really understand how somebody else might have experienced the situation and why they would have done what they did. And I just think being able to say to our kids, you know, I've been in, I've been watching a court case where I was given one, you know, one bit of information by the lawyer and the the person who is being questioned, and then the next lawyer stood up and started questioning. And I thought, Whoa. Okay. That was, that was, it was an absolute about turn of information. And I think it's just helping our kids to get to to be prepared to say, Have I got the full story? Yeah. Can I understand this deeper? And would it be? Because I think they often feel like they're being a traitor if they ask the other side, because it's quite comfortable thinking, Oh, I know what I think about this. Oh, 100%
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Yes, camp, isn't it?
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Yes, be with your gang, tribal, yes. But with that, by doing that, it's really beautiful.
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You're training empathy in them, yeah,
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and an ability to think creatively, which we need in life, yeah? So yeah.
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Just wanted to think about that.
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So however you define these stages, there are stages, aren't there? Yeah. And they're not easy to say, Oh, I've gone into a new stage. You kind of realize it when you trip over.
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Hang on, it feels a bit different. Oh,
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yeah. And I've got a summary of the stages that Ellen Galinsky pointed out.
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Said, you want to hear them? I'd love to. Yes, there's nurturer birth to one year. During this time, a baby needs to know that they feel safe. Your job is to create a safe space for your child and meet all their needs boundaries, which is age one to five. This is the time remember it well, when children start to test their boundaries. And it's okay and even natural for them to do this, but we need to set clear and consistent boundaries.
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It's quite challenging training the heart ages six to 12, and at this stage, the child begins to take ownership of obedience. In order to do this, they need to understand the why.
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Oh, I rankled at the word obedience there. Oh,
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too funny. Too funny. Of course she did. Of course she did. Well, I think what she means by obedience is actually they're not going to obey unless they understand why.
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So in other words, I think what I think it's phrased in that way, but I think what actually they mean is this is the stage where they don't just blindly follow what you're saying, and they start questioning, yeah, yeah. And that, and that is the sort of six to 12 they're going to start going, hmm, can you I want to know why, and this is really important for understanding how society works, and conversations are really important in this time and listening and respecting the child and being able to discuss things rather than just say because I said, Yeah, which is, again, it's the nice, easy option, ages 13 to 18. So let's these are our stages now, right?
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So the 13 to 18, I mean, that last stage some of our listeners will be in, but, yeah, that's the stage of parenting where you should be able to begin stepping back and allowing the child to make some decisions. And this is more of a coaching role, and you know, we've got to let them make mistakes. We've got to let them take the consequences for bad decisions they make, knowing that they've got your support up until that, you know, and it's so different. It's so hard, it's so hard, and we've got to keep correcting to the minimum. It's really interesting because I I struggled with this. I struggled with this, allowing the look.
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And I think I've actually changed my viewpoints recently.
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I think I struggled with it because I didn't know where the what the right level was to be, so how much support, how much freedom, I think is a really hard place to find, and I think it changes, and I think it's different depending on the child. Yes, absolutely. But in the book 10 to 25 David Jacob talks about he just says, high support and high expectations are critical, and I think I probably didn't understand that very well, and wasn't necessarily particularly good at getting that right. Yeah, no,
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that resonates with me as well. I think I found the early years of teenagers fine. I thought was the problem, because I was okay, I was I was okay, letting go in that in those years, I was all right and watching them do what they needed to do and develop. I think mine anyway, maybe need more support now. Or maybe I've changed my views on it. I'm not sure, but it's definitely changed for me as well as they've gotten
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older. Yeah, interesting, because I'm sure people listening, some of them will be high they like to control what's going on, because they're fearful that if they don't control it, then something terrible will happen, and there will be others who are very hands off. Yeah, and I, and the thing that really changed for me was understanding that, you know, you need the high support as well. And the other thing that's really changed for me is having a much after discussions with my two daughters, I've, I've understood that they there's a really dramatic difference in the way that they're viewing things and learning, and one of them does not pick things up from her surroundings and from consequences. No, like natural consequences, it's not it's not enough. And I think actually, for kids, because if you if you can see that, Oh, you think, Oh, do you know what's going to happen? I can tell what's going to happen, but I'm going to let it happen so they learn the consequence. Well, maybe they don't, yeah, and then they just keep stumbling through life, making stupid mistakes. And I have found with her that it's much obviously I can't nag, and nagging they switch off. But engaging her in a conversation where I say, So, how do you see that? And then she tells me, I say, Oh, that's really interesting, because I see it this way, and I worry that other people might see it this way.
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What do you think has been instrumental in getting her to engage more, in learning the stuff that there are
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other options? Yes, yeah, yeah, I have one. Those.
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But it's, it manifests quite differently. It's more sort of structural, I think. And again, the natural consequences of, you know, being late or missing the bus, they they need doing quite a few times. It's, yes, yes, we're still not there. But that's a bit different, maybe, from from other things. But it's very hard to to, because you always think, don't you have?
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Oh, natural consequence done.
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Brilliant tick. Oh, why didn't they learn? Why are they doing it again? Okay, I have to stand back and watch it again. Out,
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yeah, it's hard. It's really hard. But I think when, when something because I keep thinking like, you know, when you come back to the high support model, the thing to do is we have to almost be prepared to say, talk them through, so rather than just because I know that when I was younger, if something bad happened, I'm an I'm an optimist. So what would happen is, the bad thing would happen, I would experience the pain, and then two seconds later, I'd forgotten it, yes, because I would just think, Oh well, you know, I'd lose money, I'd drop it somewhere, or I'd lose something, and I got really good at just clearing it out of my brain. That's brain junk. I don't want
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that's a brilliant skill, isn't it? But it's great the learning, and it
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took me much, much longer, yeah. And I also think what's been interesting is talking with Sam Kelly in the episode about noticing and doing that. There are certain skills that we can, we can bring out, draw out of our kids at that age that I hadn't been doing, yes, because I hadn't been thinking and in that other so it's a lot of it's about mindset, don't you think, yeah, and
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also the process of it. Because I think sometimes we go, oh, that needs fixing. Need to do that right? Natural, consequently, done. But it's not. It's part of a much longer, bigger process for both involved, like for the for the child involved, they're not going to learn it overnight, because that's the way they are and and we're not going to fix it overnight, and maybe we shouldn't be fixing it at all.
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But I totally agree on you, like, just standing and watching and doing nothing. I for me that that is that's not doesn't feel comfortable for me. So I'm there, guiding and giving information and going, if, if you're late, then this is what, how it's looked upon. And how about you do this tool of, like, working out how long it takes you to do everything, like things like that. So I'm not just going, Oh, I'm going to watch you crash, but it's such a it's like a dance, isn't it? How do we too much, too little too much, too, little too much.
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Where, where's the where's the balance?
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And we slip in and out of control that, and it's quite disorienting for us.
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I think one of the things we wanted to talk about in this episode is how it feels to parent and going through these different stages, and you're trying to be a good parent, but you're also trying to grow up yourself. Yeah. I mean, we just, you know, I don't feel qualified for this. Who gave me this job, I know. So we're all having to kind of grow ourselves as we go along. That's a really difficult ask. And I think also during this stage, this kind of adolescent stage, to an extent, some of those kids are going to start creating images of what a parent should be like, yes, and comparing us with other so because they're going to other people's houses and or how their life should be. So, you know, I've had a child come home and go, Oh, have you seen the house?
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It's amazing. And they've got this, and they got the and I actually had to calm my own chimp down, because it was thinking, what's wrong with my house? And I recognize, actually what they were doing was they were just celebrating how lovely that environment was, which is very different to our environment. And I managed to go so does is that the sort of way you'd like to live when you're older? You know what things in it would you like to take into your own home? I don't want to like that. Oh,
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interesting, yeah.
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But sometimes it can be a criticism, can't it? And sometimes we can unpack that with them as well. Yeah. At the moment, I've got two learning how to drive, and I'm on my own, so in the norm or the norm universe comments, what's the norm anyway? If you're lucky enough to have driving lessons at all, and somebody who can take you out to drive. Then there's often two parents taking one child out. So we have the opposite. We have two children, and there's just me, wow. So they have, they have to really take it in turns, and they're both really keen. And it's, I mean, it's a first world problem, but there is a sort of element of, oh, we don't get to go out enough. And but explaining that to one of them the other day, that this is the situation, it was like, oh, yeah, of course, yeah. No, no, no, it's fine. It's fine, fine, yeah. So there can also be elements of, I want to be like them, and that's okay, yeah.
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And that yearning is, you know, I think they're forming their idea of what, how they think things could be when they're older, or I'm not going to do that, and then something else will be awful about things. So it's just,
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Aren't they on the sort of at this stage, and we've talked about this before, and also older of this kind of, maybe especially when they're older, but I'm seeing it definitely in one of mine, that the younger ones that you know, they really desperately want to be into. And do everything themselves. But can you just drive me to the bus stop because I'm really late, you know? Or can you just make me snack because I'm I'm really hungry and I can't be bothered to get up, you know? I'm, where's the
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yes, at which point do you say no, do it yourself.
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You have to run to the bus stop. And
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I think there's a stage Miranda Gosling talks about where we actually it's really important for us parents to have our own space and our own needs met. Yes. And it's not just self care in a kind of soppy, sort of fluffy way. It's actually that we do need to make sure that we're okay, yes, and sometimes it is. I can't. I just can't do that. Yeah,
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or I'm not going to, going to do that. I said that to him this morning, actually, no, the deal is, you want to be more independent, so you need to run.
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If you miss it, you have to get the next one. Yes. Okay, quick.
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But I totally agree on that we need to give ourselves time and space. And I think that's so we've talked about that many times. It's so I struggle with that. It's so undervalued because the energy we bring to our kids when we've taken care of ourselves and we've gone away and we've done something, even if it's just for 10 minutes, that gives us joy or makes our brains work, just by walking into the room, you can tell when someone's done something different. Bringing that to them is super important, above the idea that we need to be rested and and okay, and then we're we're better parents. If that's possible, that is super important. And we still don't do it. I still don't do it hands.
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Yeah,
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enough. No, we need me neither. And I also think that what's really interesting about this stage is what I've learned is I have to step back emotionally. Yes, and we want to be involved emotionally, because we love our kids with all our heart, and they really matter to us, and we invest so much in them, but actually we're much more useful when we are able to disconnect our emotions from the situation they feel in. Yeah, so we can say, No, it's really hard, but actually being able to we're not so. So for example, I've learned just the other day, my daughter had said to me something where she just said, I feel absolutely terrible. I'm so unhappy. I did this and and I said to her, well, so why? Why do you feel that way? Why do you Okay? And then, what was the situation?
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How did it lead up to that situation? And all I did was I switched on my curious voice, yeah, and just sat there and let her talk it through. So I didn't get involved. I did not get emotionally involved. I just managed to sit back and I've that's taken me a long time to develop emotionally. I don't jump in. No, it's
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unpacking it with us, if we can. If
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you do that, it helps them go through the steps.
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Oh, I did this, and then they did that, and I Oh, yes, and that happened. And then they slowly can, they can unpick it themselves. Yeah, we can just be a blackboard. They can write stuff
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on. What a gift to give them, the ability to unpack the stuff that comes up for them. Because that will happen again and again. I find it useful too, because I we, I think we all find that really difficult, emotionally unattaching ourselves. We're so over invested, was following through on my thought process.
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So when we want to control or we are worried about them, it's fear based, isn't it? Fear, but fear of what? And then following that thought to its end, which is usually a sort of massively catastrophized thing based on our own rubbish, normally, or whatever it is, but really making yourself follow those, follow that what, round of what, and then what, and then what, and then what, and then questioning it. And then, once you know what your fear is, the core of it, you'll see it pop up each time and go, oh, oh, there's the fear. Oh, there is Hello, right, fuck you. And I'm just going to take this, this situation, yeah? And that's that's really helped me, yeah?
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And I think when you start out in these teen years, you're looking up, going, Gosh, you know, what's this going to be like? And I need all these skills, and I need to, I need to adjust to it. And one thing I've learned is that our teens aren't necessarily going to be the people that we picked they they were when they were younger. They're not going to, they're going to they have to dabble with their identity. They have to form an identity that sort of works for them. And sometimes that's not at all what you pictured, and you you absolutely have to accept and love that person like you've got. And I think that's a really hard thing to say, because I think there are a lot of people who say, no one, but I have these values, and my child has to sit within these values. And we can say that, but they may.
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And I'm thinking about kids who are homosexual, for example. I don't know if people use that, maybe same sex attracted, for example, or kids who are neuro spicy and they, they just they, they're never going to fit into the academic model that you've been looking at this stage. The stage four is actually having to adapt the way you thought things were going to be to the child you have. Yeah. Super important.
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Because super important, so challenging. And
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it goes to the core of, what do we need as human beings? Doesn't it? To be seen and heard and loved and accepted just as we are, and if we get that at home, which many people don't, but Gen, you know, really accepted, then, then we get this massive gift of stability, don't we, if we don't get that, if we're judging, if we're worrying, if we're fearing, which we all are as well, because we're all human beings with our own baggage, then that gets filtered through to the kid, yeah,
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yeah. And I, and for me, we like with my bonus daughters, if they they call me or they message me, one of them, in particular, messages me whenever she's got a problem, and she always says, I'm so sorry about like, No, I love it.
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It's the biggest compliment that she's actually interested in whether I could support and help her, and that's what we wanted.
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But that's set up that comes from her feeling safe, that she's not going to be judged or made uncomfortable, which
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is beautiful, and that doesn't in the same same breath, doesn't mean that we have to be silent on everything they say no or not, nudge them like if they come and say, Oh, I've really messed this up.
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Then, you know, we can give our opinion on it that actually, I think that's a bit rubbish of you, or I don't think that was good enough, or whatever the situation. Sure, it's that's, that's just as important, that it's not just a, oh, anything goes. Yeah. No, no, I completely agree. I love you just as you are, and I think the behavior you just expressed was whatever.
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Yeah, I didn't like it, or whatever, and you can express but
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that's why it's so important for us. I think, I think one of the big things for us parents when we're becoming parents of teenagers, because it becomes so much more complicated figuring out our values, yeah, so that we can then explain it.
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So if they do something that's outside our our value system, we can articulate it and say, you know, I don't like that because of the like. I find that really challenging because of this, where are you coming from? So that you can have actually have a conversation about it and say, you know that that lying that you're doing is not, you know, the way you treated that person.
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I find it really uncomfortable, because I think my values are this. What are your values? Are your
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values? Yeah. And as they get older, and I've had this conversation with my eldest on something particular,
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we just agree to disagree, yeah, yeah, okay, I
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this is how I see it, and I hear that you see it differently, and that's fine. I understand that you see it differently, and I you know about sympathy, isn't it? And, and I don't agree with you, yeah. And should we just agree to disagree? And he's like, Yeah, okay, yeah.
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And that's, that's, I'm sure, you know, when you had an 11 year old, for example, that was not something that you think you'd have to go through the whole thing with you, because you can't imagine it. I couldn't imagine with my 11 year olds how it would be when they were 18. And we'd have that sort of have, we would have, you know, our role will have evolved.
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Yeah, actually, with him, I think I would have been all right with that. Yeah. I don't know how to think back, isn't it? Yeah, they
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are evolving.
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Yeah, while you're in the relationship with them and you don't, you sort of just have to adjust constantly along the way, rather than you, you don't go, Oh, now you know, now we're going to do this. No, no, no.
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And it's a, it's a slow dance.
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It's a very difficult Yeah. So the next stage that she talks about is mentoring. So the one before, what was that coaching to 1813, to 18, and then mentoring? Was that 18 to what?
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18 to job or marriage, or it may just never end. How interesting this is. This is Ellen galinsby, long time. So maybe that some of this has changed. Once your kids are 18 or older, they should be living their lives. The goal of this stage is to be the mentor.
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This is written before the cost of living crisis. I think so. Yeah, but I think no,
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no, emotionally. Emotionally, think I do think I've got an 18 year old, and I think she's living her life, yeah, and I think my role is mentoring. I don't I, I literally don't have to instruct her on anything in particular.
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She we have a relationship where she'll come to me,
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yeah, and talk to me, and she means relationally as well, living and all of that kind of stuff. So it's
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not about telling them what they should do. They, you know, it's supported but disengaged and and they're fully responsible. Now, not all of them will be, will they? You know, not all of them will have reached that stage, and we have to be prepared to so one lady wrote to me and said she was struggling because, you know, her son's left school.
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He's 18, and he hasn't really sorted it. He hasn't got on his feet yet. He's neuro spicy.
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That's fine, you know, because some of our kids will take longer, yes, but we still have, you know, the support still, if they're in that they're not ready to actually do take on all these things I do think we need to be constantly still there, yeah,
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then, then it's really the dance of nudging and letting go. Nudging, letting go, isn't it? Because you can't just, well, I would disagree on that you just go all you know, you're fine, just, you'll find you know the flow, actually, no, that's not you a little bit because that it feels unsafe to just be left hanging. Well.
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:21.920
So I do. I've been thinking a lot about this recently, that I think a lot of guys I've spoken to say that they like structure, yeah. And not all of them, obviously, but I hear that more from them. I hear more from young men, that one of the hardest things for them was leaving school and her not having a structure, yeah.
00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:39.680
And I think that one of the ways in which this stage can be really helpful is where we do still provide structure, yeah, to an extent. So it's not pushing them, but it's actually saying, so how are you going to map out your week? How? Because when we do that, someone they know someone cares, yeah?
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:41.019
Because I think otherwise they can feel like it's just kind of
00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:48.940
Yeah, and it also then they have loads of, like, idle time. It's cool, isn't it, where it's really hard to get off your butt and do something, yes, yes,
00:25:49.299 --> 00:26:11.640
yeah. And that's what we all find, that we're both at this stage with one, at least one of our kids, yeah. And I've got older ones who are, you know, in their jobs and beyond. So it's and actually, what's interesting is getting feedback from them about how their friends were parented and what worked and what did.
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:18.119
Oh, interesting. One of my bonus daughters says the most unhappy friends she has are the ones whose parents made it look like they'd do everything for them.
00:26:18.419 --> 00:26:21.259
Oh, how interesting.
00:26:18.419 --> 00:26:22.459
What enabled them? Yeah, yeah, yeah, where they basically
00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:40.599
stepped in every time there was something that needed to be done, and then they've got into the world of work, and they found that it doesn't all revolve around them, and that they're Yeah, I know it's really hard, and I think it's unfortunate, because it's a much it's made them quite angry and resentful, yeah, because they feel that things aren't working out the way they expected, because they were
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:43.599
led to think around, yeah, but coming back to
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:52.359
this sort of 18, to whatever job, marriage, travel, whatever they're doing, have there been adjustments that you found particularly difficult?
00:26:52.660 --> 00:27:12.960
Yes and no. I think some of it has been really beautiful and really sort of organic, the kind of, I mean, my son is at university, so he's, I think he would still say He lives at home, but is obviously a way for a lot of the time living his life at university.
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:41.440
And, yeah, he's, he's very independent in many ways, and some of that's been really easy, like I'm, I think we had a long process of letting go on a sort of, I don't know, daily, daily level. I think what's happened with him is that he's gone away, and I remember this happening with me, and he's begun to reflect on, you know, who he is, and what was his childhood like.
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:56.859
And I'm sure he wouldn't mind me saying this, but I will be careful, because I haven't checked it with him. He has a lovely girlfriend, and they talk a lot, which is wonderful. And I think they've been talking about, you know, their families and what it was like growing up.
00:27:58.059 --> 00:28:31.039
And I think then he's been stepping back a bit and going, oh, oh, hang on, yeah, that happened. And, oh, that happened. And I think it's probably a normal process for that age. I certainly remember doing that going away, and then you have a bit of distance, don't you, and you look at your your parents, particularly in the way you've been brought up, and maybe your schools and all of that, in a different light, because there's a bit of distance. And it's been super interesting. And He came back at Christmas and was asking loads of questions, and we talked a lot, and we did in the summer as well, actually, about some of the stuff that happened to him, because it was, some of it was quite challenging for him.
00:28:31.460 --> 00:28:35.720
That's been very interesting.
00:28:31.460 --> 00:29:20.720
And it feels like he wants to know these things. And he's, he's really grown up, and he's emotionally very aware. I think, I think he's doing an amazing job on it, and it's really hard for some of it, but I think they, they're different. They they go away, and they, they are starting to reflect upon who they are, which is they're meant to they meant to do that. And then I think we have to be really authentic in that, and particularly if there's some stuff that you know we don't like talking about, or is challenging or painful or or maybe we're having the finger pointed at us. I'm not but it could, as could well be, at some point, I'm sure it will be that can be very challenging, and we need to be able to sit and have those conversations if we're being invited to have them, obviously not jumping No, no.
00:29:22.220 --> 00:29:54.220
And I think that I see, I see, sort of the seeds of what our relationship will look like in the future. And that's made me think, ah, what kind of relationship do I want to have with my kids as they get older and as they become adults? So it's kind of, it's, again, a part of a new process. Yes, it's really for now. It's been really beautiful. It's been it's been challenging for him, because he's had some stuff he's had to process and is doing at the moment, but with some of his childhood stuff, yeah, very interesting, though, yeah.
00:29:54.220 --> 00:30:18.779
And I it's a really interesting point you're making, because my kids regularly talk about the way they were brought. Brought up because we talk about it anyway, but my bonus daughters, every now and then it really, it comes up. Yeah, it comes up. And I don't think we were the best parents. I don't, I don't think so, you know, if you come from the background, I came from that that's a very challenging thing to do anyway.
00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:22.160
I were also thrown into it, weren't you? Though?
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:22.880
Yeah,
00:30:23.299 --> 00:31:45.160
yeah, I mean, and I just basically tinkered in the background because it was just so challenging, yeah, because I didn't know what to do and to but I think one of the things that I've done in those discussions is to try and explain to them that as we go through life, and when we have our children, we don't know what we're doing, just trying to figure it out as we're going along and and I think kids find it very difficult. Is this whole thing I've started with, where this this leap of imagination, of trying to see things through the lens of somebody else and the and the and I think our kids see us as these really competent, amazing people, and then they start seeing our flaws. But then what they had to do is they have to actually get their head around the fact that we were teenagers once, we were parented once, and that we we had to unwind our own parenting to an extent while we're trying to parent other kids. Because you kind of a lot of us don't confront this stuff before we're parents. My bonus daughter once said to me, I don't understand why people have kids before they've sorted out all their stuff. And I'm like, Okay, let me just have a conversation with you. I was very judgy, yeah, yes, because you don't, because you don't. And it was a great thing point she made because I said to her, you know, it's not that easy, because think about you. What have you got pregnant now? Do you think that you're ready? Do you think you're sorted out? Do you think you've sorted out all your stuff?
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:46.960
You're never sorted out, never sorted it out.
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:51.099
They're the biggest teacher my kids are my biggest teachers that you learn on the job.
00:31:51.700 --> 00:32:16.319
Yeah, and that's the great thing about it, is that actually the people who are listening to this podcast, all of you listeners, I think what's exciting is that the very fact you're listening to this means that you're interested in growing interested in growing and that growing process is the bonus of being a parent. I really think that. And I think the having to parent my kids has been the best growing experience of my life. Yeah? And it's really challenging, yeah?
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:21.619
And the most humbling, I think it's the most humbling, is it because we have to be willing to look in the dark corners,
00:32:21.979 --> 00:32:25.578
yes, because they because, yeah, they write inside it, aren't they?
00:32:25.579 --> 00:32:37.400
And also for our own, you know, for their good and for our own good. Like and to connect properly, we have to be willing to stick our hands up and go, yep, did that really sorry, yeah. Or you feel that I don't agree with you, wrong?
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:49.119
Yeah, that wasn't my experience, and I hear that was yours, and I'm sorry, yeah, or if that's relevant, whatever the situation is, but it craves that we we're brave.
00:32:50.680 --> 00:33:09.180
So I hope you're not listening to this thinking, oh my goodness, I was all going to get much easier, because it does. It does. I think this is a much easier stage, because I'm I'm really enjoying mine. Yes, I'm loving spending time with them. I find them really enjoyable. We have a lot of fun. Yeah, I think it can vary.
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:11.220
I'm going to be the Debbie Downer in that case.
00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:40.240
Then, because I absolutely love hanging out with my kids, I think they're really fun. All of them, we, you know, we have a lot of fun. There's a lot of banter. So that side of it is is wonderful as they grow up. You get to see these nutty, crazy people, and we have a very open house, so, you know, you can talk about anything, good and bad, all of that. So that's really beautiful. I think it's harder in the I feel, and maybe that's my bad in it, and I'm actually trying to work on it.
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:50.319
At the moment, I feel like I'm holding more. I just I feel like holding more. What holding more?
00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:53.980
Finish the sentence, holding more. Am I holding holding more?
00:33:50.680 --> 00:34:00.839
I'm holding the space more. I'm worrying a bit more, because they are off doing their own thing, and I've let go in that.
00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:24.860
I'm then worrying as to how that will turn out, or how that will and all of my kids have had, you know, stuff that hasn't worked out, as I'm sure all kids do, but they haven't been, you know, we just sail through school and everything is easy, and tick box, there's been challenges. So I think I'm a bit like, oh, unless I'm really aware of it and really take myself in hand.
00:34:21.019 --> 00:34:38.300
And for me, that's a practice, a daily practice, of letting go and trying to hold in a way that doesn't drain me. How interesting, yeah, I find this stage hard actually, and really fun and beautiful, like it's definitely both.
00:34:38.300 --> 00:34:44.260
But it sounds to me like that's, that's how you it's your feelings that are really you're kind of on alert.
00:34:44.260 --> 00:35:09.000
It's not the practical stuff. I mean, it is that that is much easier now, unless you're having to drive and pick up and all of that. But it's the it's the the future worry, maybe, which sounds a bit nutty from maybe from a mindfulness teacher. Yeah. But it's the awareness that, oh gosh, that my mind has gone there. I'm worrying about that and bringing it back each time.
00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:13.559
Yeah, yeah. I feel that. I feel I'm holding more, but maybe that's just the circumstances that my kids are in, and they have been a few
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:21.260
bumpy bits in the way, right? I feel like put one foot in front of the other.
00:35:17.579 --> 00:35:37.699
I'm really shrinking my my views about that, to try and I, you know, so that I don't feel scared. You know, you've got one who's left school completely, who will start studying again in September, completely, you know, practical course. I look at that, and I think the course she's on looks incredible, yeah.
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:50.199
But that whole industry is being really impacted by AI. And then I think, well, they all are. And then I think, well, you know, actually, there are skills that she needs that will set her up for managing anything in life.
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:53.980
And that's what I'm going to focus on. I'm not going to worry about the rest of it. Yes, too.
00:35:54.039 --> 00:36:19.320
Which is amazing, which is amazing. And I dip into that as well, but I also dip into the, oh, yikes, because I don't know, I think on a daily level, there's, there's this just seems to be always something, right? And maybe, maybe it's the emotional connection and the talks and the needs, which I'm always happy to drop everything and do, yeah, yeah. I don't know. It's a phase.
00:36:20.099 --> 00:37:03.179
And I just to finish off, I think the stage six that she mentions, which is this sort of final, they've gone off. And I just wanted to say that the one thing I have learnt from looking at my bonus daughters, looking at the other generations in the family, when we've put them all together, the thing that I have learnt is the most important thing of all is your kids will never stop needing you to accept them completely and adore them. They just, they just, it doesn't matter how old they are. I've watched grown men sitting next to their mother or father telling them with light in their eyes about something they're doing, just needing their parents to go, Oh, that's amazing. That's That's it.
00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:11.940
Honestly, that's the most amazing thing. And accepting them for who they are and when they don't accept them for who they are, that's where all the horrible things happen from what I've seen.
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:27.559
Yes, I totally agree with you. I totally I think as adults, we can unhook that need and we can work on that so because if you're constantly banging your head against the wall and not getting that that's being seen in that way, then that's, that's very destructive.
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:32.719
So we can unhook ourselves that we don't need it, and we can give it to ourselves. But I think the other way around, it's very,
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:42.219
very my mother went to her dying. I sat next to her, she died, and I and I still, I still felt terrible that she didn't connect with like, she didn't talk to me, didn't connect
00:37:42.340 --> 00:37:45.039
with me. I mean, really painful. So maybe we can.
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:48.579
We can, yes, surrender to the fact that it's never going to
00:37:48.579 --> 00:37:56.739
happen. Yeah, we need to surrender to it, but it still doesn't go away. No, no. As parents, as a parent, we cannot be right. We can say most amazing gift. Focus
00:37:56.739 --> 00:37:58.900
on, on offering that, whatever the situation.
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:38.179
Yeah. So what stage are you at? Is it hard? Is it great? Do you think or hope it gets easier? We'd love to hear your experiences. Any of them? Why not? Email? Is teenagers untangled@gmail.com you can message using the phone text message function. I can't see who you are. So you can't, I can't message you back. If that's there's a question there, don't bother with that, that form of connection. And also Instagram, all the, all the various social media forums, Susie that that's sort of sitting with things in the practice that she has every day.
00:38:34.940 --> 00:38:39.920
If you want to learn some of that from her, how would they find you?
00:38:40.579 --> 00:38:47.980
Find me on my website, and then all my various links are within that, which is www, dot, amindful hyphen, life.co.uk,
00:38:49.300 --> 00:39:02.099
and if you want to help anybody, including parents who've got younger kids and and you thought this was a useful episode, send it to at least one person. That would be amazing. Give us a review. Five stars. We wouldn't say, no, no.
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:14.760
I'm just thinking right now, remembering that, you know, everything is a phase, like you talk about these stages. Every nothing is permanent. No, nothing. So we're in the phase we're in right now, and it might last a few months.
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:18.780
It might last a day. We don't know that. So we only have what we have right now. And
00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:44.260
you know, but you know what I remember as a teenager thinking, when I get to, yeah, there's always that when I get to, and there's a brilliant book I'm rambling now by Herman. Hess called Siddhartha, and it's about the, yes, it's about, it's about the Bucha, the Buddha. And the thing that really stuck with me was this concept of the river and how the river is constantly flowing. And there are, you know, it's, it's never the same.
00:39:40.900 --> 00:39:44.260
You never sit by the same river.
00:39:44.619 --> 00:39:48.940
And our life works in a circle.
00:39:44.619 --> 00:39:52.179
And this, this sense that you can't be static. It doesn't happen and things will change.
00:39:52.179 --> 00:39:52.840
It's surrendering
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:56.739
to that, being like surrendering to the change,
00:39:58.900 --> 00:39:59.920
right? My Websites double.
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:09.480
Www.teenagersuntangled.com you can find all the episodes reviews. Sign up to the newsletter. That's it. Have a big hug from me. Great week, bye bye, bye bye. Finn
