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Rachel, hello and welcome to teenagers.
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Untangled, the audio hub for parents going through the teen and tween years, where no question is a bad question. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters, and my teens are 16 and 18 now, and I'm thinking a lot more about the skills they'll need beyond education and how they can use the holidays and gaps to grow in other ways. To me, a working holiday is ideal because they gain travel experience navigate a different culture, they gain skills that they'll need when they leave home, and I've already made an episode talking in general about gap years. But then I was contacted by JENZA.
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They're an organization that has decades of experience helping over half a million young people travel and work abroad. And I thought, wow, they could give us some great tips and advice. Even better, they offered to sponsor this episode, so I don't make any money from this podcast. I do it to help me learn to be a better parent and share everything with you, because the more happy, strong parents there are, well, the more we all benefit, right? I'm not interested in working with people who don't align with my values. So this is a burst in this episode. You'll hear me chatting with Jens as Adam janaway, he's English, but he spent eight summers working at a camp in Connecticut, starting the summer before uni, and then every summer after, he spent a year in Canada on a working holiday visa. And now he's head of JENZA's global operations. In this discussion, you'll hear what kind of opportunities are available for working abroad, what kind of support our teens can get the benefits to their entire life of getting this experience and Adam's advice to us parents so that we can help our kids make the most of the opportunity. Now, whether you're planning ahead, your teen has an unplanned gap, or you have a young adult who would love to work abroad, this interview is for you. Adam, thanks so much for joining us here. What would you say are the benefits of working abroad, against just traveling?
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There are so many, actually. So try and rain me. Where do we start? If I go on, I would say that a working holiday is a adventurous transition into adulthood. It teaches crucial skills like responsibility, adaptability, problem solving, skills that aren't always developed, either in a traditional travel or, I would say, a traditional academic setting as well. And actually, it provides a kind of a nice new, different lane for the mind to travel in, working abroad, being a part of a new community, learning new skills and meeting new people and actually teaching those people that you're with about you and where you come from as well, get a completely different kind of context of being somewhere new than just sort of traveling on a holiday, for example.
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Yeah, I talked to my daughter about this, who's now 18, and I said, what kind of questions would you like me to ask? And she said, you know, what I want to know is like, how is this going to help me with my career? Of course, people are worried about that. So what would you say if somebody said, Well, why would I send them there when I could try and get an internship in their hometown, for example?
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Yeah, so I would say the cultural exposure and the, you know doing the work experience in a completely, literally foreign setting definitely gives you an edge in your career and your your future resume. I'm a strong believer that the principles of being a high performing or productive kind of employee, or really human or friend or any other role you play while you're at home is actually best learned and practice somewhere new, somewhere interesting, you kind of, I think, when you, when you do it somewhere completely new, you're, you're free of your kind of at home identity. And one of the most common pieces of feedback I hear from people coming back from like doing a work experience, maybe it's an internship or a board, is that, you know, I really found out a lot about myself, or maybe became a different person, or a person I feel I was meant to be in. It might sound a bit cliche, especially if it's a young person saying, You know what benefit is that in my career?
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But I think that being somewhere new, taking on the challenges and kind of new perspectives and new world views, all while also building your career skills, is absolutely invaluable.
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Such an interesting point. It's funny, isn't it? Because I think that we only start to discover our own culture and our own the ways that we think when we confronted with a different one, and it starts to make us stop, doesn't it? Certainly was the impact it had on me, because that changed my life. When I was working abroad. I think some people would think, well, I'd like to travel. So am I going to get stuck working for the whole time? Or, how does that work?
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It's a it's a huge perk of working abroad is, and I would say, actually the number one perk is that the travel benefits and and what you get to do around that work. I guess if I separate the different experiences, maybe into three broad categories might be helpful thinking about, yeah, short term, structured work Experiences or placements, for example, things like being spending a summer as a camp counselor in the US, you will end up with a fixed period of work. But actually a huge part and component of that program is 30 days at the end, which is the visa time that is focused on you being able to go out and travel and spend all the money that you've earned. And then, yeah, I guess the second category I would maybe group it into would be more, perhaps longer term, kind of flexible working holidays that might last like a year, a year or longer.
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Countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan offer visas that support that, and that often requires a little bit more independence of decision making in terms of what you're going to do and where you're going to go. But most people that do that will spend a period of time working somewhere, then a period of time traveling, then a period of time working, then a period of time traveling. And I guess thinking about again, the wider benefits of a working holiday versus just a kind of backpacking trip or something like that. They're not it's not it's not always accessible to everyone, but to be able to afford to spend just traveling, and actually, if you can sustain yourself by earning as you go and paying for those trips and experiences that you're going to have as a traveler by working, yeah, then it makes it more accessible. I guess. The third option I would just just highlight is what we were just talking about in terms of like, a professional internship or work placement. It's often the thing that people jump to. I need a career experience. I need an internship that I can put on my CV. But that probably is a thing that will offer you the least flexibility in terms of seeing a different country and traveling and things like, I don't want to say you don't have any fun, because I'm sure there's lots of fun in it, but it's maybe more restrictive in terms of what else you can do, but still plenty of opportunity to travel. It's
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interesting what you said about traveling, because I've done both. I've done working and I've done traveling, and I have to say that the traveling was enjoyable, but after a while it got not samey, but you're not really scratching beneath the surface of the people in the country, because you're not actually interacting with them in the way that you might if you're working with them. So I felt that that was quite a big bonus of actually working abroad. You started out in summer camps, didn't you? What was that like? Yeah, absolutely,
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yeah. It was, feels like maybe it was a different life now. But yeah, I actually got my start as a customer of gender of our sibling company, but going up to work as a camp counselor, as an 18 year old, fresh out of high school, was my first summer, and it provided perhaps some guard rails to the experience is very structured. You get a pre arranged job placement. You know exactly where you're going. You have a plan laid out for you in your entire kind of trip and travel. You go to a place and you're going to be there for eight or nine weeks, for example, and then you get that travel time afterwards. So you've spent eight or nine weeks kind of getting used to this notion of being somewhere new, and a little bit like you said, there as well actually becoming more than just a tourist, understanding and dealing with people in a way where they treat you, not as just a visitor, as as a member of their community and and actually having that experience, and then going into traveling in that in that country, and then going off into experiencing perhaps new, different places, it gives you kind of a bit of a superpower, I think, in terms of a traveler in that, in that country,
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yeah, that makes a lot of sense when you actually went to America. I'm interested because, you know, we're English, and on the surface of it, you think, Well, why would I go to America?
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Because it's kind of the
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same, right? I can assure you it's not right. I mean, of course, there are some cultural synergies. You know, there's that. There's a huge benefit in the language, although I have plenty of people that will argue that the American English and English English has plenty of differences. Oh yes, but I would actually say that's a bit of a benefit. There are, there are so many differences, but you get to approach them in a way that doesn't feel completely jarring.
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We speak a lot about culture shock, and actually, when you go and work at summer camp in the US, I'd say there's two levels of culture shock. There's the culture shock of being in a different country, and, yeah, kind of the different world views, perspectives that you hear. But actually, summer camp is also one of the most high energy, kind of wonderful places in the world. Everyone there is has one mission that's to positively impact the lives of children. So you get everyone with kind of that mindset, and you get a, yeah, I guess, as a Brit going into it, it's kind of, it's a lot of energy, you know, maybe we can be known for being a little bit reserved. Bit reserved, but that's certainly not the case. When you get to summer camp, you kind of embrace that full high octane energy of running around, dancing on the tables. I
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think my younger daughters are already teed up to go out there. She's very, very excited by the concept. She's a little bit young still, because I think it's 18, isn't it? 18 plus that you Yes,
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it's independent travel. So yeah, 18 plus, and that's actually also driven by a lot of the visa requirements from from kind of working, but it's great to start thinking about this kind of stuff as a younger person, I would say yes. And there's actually a lot you can do to prepare for an experience like that. As you know you're approaching the end of. Your teenage years, for example, if working at a summer camp is sort of something that might excite you, actually, what experiences can you build now that will put you in a great position to be applying for a job at summer camp, because working with children, actually, we often joke that, apart from being a parent, there is no other job that has as many contact hours with children because as a camp counselor or thrust with the responsibility of, say, a cabin full of children, and they're yours for 2024, hours a day, wow, the week. But it's, it's full on. And actually, I'd say that's as well, one of the powers of that experience, and talking about like the professional benefits, I wouldn't say there's any higher responsibility than being charged with the life of other people's children and that. And for basically 1920 21, year old, that's actually a huge thing to take on. And if you can say that you've done that, and you can take and transfer what you learn doing that into whatever you do next. It's a powerful thing.
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Yeah,
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I think when I was at university, I had one summer, I had a job as a social and welfare officer for people coming to our university campus, and so that's the closest approximation I'd had to that.
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And it was so much fun, but it was challenging, and I learned a lot about dealing with different cultures and different people's viewpoints and having to manage, you know, disagreements. And, yeah, there's a lot that goes into that that you don't sort of see if you you're peering in from the outside. So I can imagine that's building all those skills you'll need, and in managing in a workplace and dealing with other people and just coping with responsibility.
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Yeah, there's, there's, there's so many, so many skills I could list as long as long as my armor, the emotional intelligence you build through it. Another thing that I think is really important, and actually I only really realized this looking back years later, that I think one of the most important skills I built from working at camp, but also, like any any other working holidays, is the skill to ask for help.
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Yes, actually, you don't really have a you have it's an undeniable kind of need that you need somebody's help. When you're somebody somewhere new, and you have absolutely no idea you need to go or what's going on. And actually, you get lots of kind of regular opportunities to ask for help in, like, small ways. But actually you might find yourself in a position where you need to ask for help in quite a serious way, and it's just such an important skill that you can kind of take on as well for the for the rest of your life,
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really. You know, at the book I read the disengaged teen, and I interviewed the author, Dr Rebecca Winthrop, and she said that, you know, in terms of data they've looked at, that it's not the university you go to, it's your ability to make the most of it. And actually, one of the key things is being able to ask for help, which is ties in really well with what you just said.
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How interesting. So what do you provide in terms in terms of just what you offer that kids can't do on their own? I mean, can't they just apply for these things
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themselves?
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Yeah, sure. So a lot of countries that you might want to go and work in require a visa to work in them. And in order to get that visa, you often have to have sponsorship. So that's, I would say, one of the first things that we can offer is interesting. Actual, the visa sponsorships, sponsorship services tongue twister, and you can't just go out and get that for some countries, you have to work with a kind of approved sponsor, and that's what we are.
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So for the US, for example, or the UK, even people traveling to the UK, we're a visa sponsor as well. But there are some countries that you can actually go and get the visa for yourself, I guess, apart from that technical or logistical services that we might offer to remove those barriers for people to actually travel and that kind of actually enter a country to work. We offer a layer of support that maybe makes the experience feel more accessible.
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So we have people on the ground in each of our destinations, available on 24/7, emergency lines. We have options for pre arranged jobs, pre arranged job placement, so you can kind of hit the ground running. We have a community of like minded people doing exactly what you're doing as well on all of our programs. So you get the opportunity to kind of back.
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That's great take on the challenges. When I did my working holiday in Canada, I'm still great friends, or the people I met when I when I landed there, and we ended up actually living together for the pretty big period of time I was out there just being it just provided a layer of comfort for me that I probably meant that I wouldn't have maybe done the experience where I might have left within the first few weeks, because it's scary landing somewhere new. But we also often recognize that if you are somebody that does want to go off and do this by yourself in a country that you can then you should, but we're here to help people that maybe want that little bit of extra help, more accessible, yeah, and
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that is very daunting. And I think a lot of the kids who've gone through COVID, it's actually it's a much bigger thing for them than it might have been for us when we were growing. Well, I'm much older than you, but when we were growing. Up it was, it was a different landscape, worldscape, in terms of the kind of things you offer. Now, you've done quite a few camps yourself. I think you've said you've been to Canada, and you also offer things like Japan, Australia.
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Some are these all camps? Or are they offering different types of experiences? So
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it's different types of experiences.
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Summer camps are really in the in the USA, for example, we also do kind of seasonal, mostly hospitality type work in the USA, but for Australia and New Zealand, those are longer form programs. They're often kind of more, I would say, kind of casual work. I mentioned sort of people often go out, they work for a bit, and they travel for a bit, and they work for a bit and they travel for a bit often. So how does
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that work, in terms of the actual getting, actually getting the work. Do you you've got a job board or something where they can Yeah, so
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in both countries, we have kind of constantly updated job job boards, and also we provide some kind of like coaching as well, so we have people that you can kind of go in and see in person, or have like phone calls or things with and preparing to kind of for the nuances of finding work in that country, versus versus any other so things like making sure your CV or resume is tailored correctly, and, yeah, pointing you in the direction, maybe to the things that are going to fit your experience, or kind of wants and needs to work there. I'll mention Canada is can be similar in terms of, kind of quite a flexible, open working arrangement. But we do pre placements in ski resorts, so all the different types of jobs that you can imagine at Ski Resort, we kind of can can help people actually get that job before they travel, whether that's either through, like an online interview, or we actually have an in person hiring fair as well, where we fly the Canadian employees over to hire people, and that can be indoor or outdoor. So there's some absolutely massive resorts in Canada, but there are also some really niche, cool, smaller resorts as well, and that can be for a summer period or a winter period. Obviously, ski resorts, they turn into kind of mountain bike resorts and things like that, during the during
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I wouldn't have thought about the summer, yeah.
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Okay, yeah.
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It's actually probably more popular in the summer, even than than in the winter, in a lot of cases, in Canada. But to speak to kind of the, I guess the only, or sort of the, the non English speaking one that maybe the feels, maybe the most challenging is, is Japan.
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That's where my daughter wants it. My older daughter wants
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to go.
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It's, it is. So, yeah, they have a working holiday arrangement as well in Japan that allows people to go there for up to 12 months.
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Again, we have people on the ground to kind of help navigate the, probably the biggest culture shock of of the destinations that that we work with, and kind of ease you into that, that world of work. One of the most common questions is, oh my gosh, do I need to speak Japanese? Do I need to learn Japanese? No, there's plenty of work you can get that maybe won't involve so much, like customer facing work, for example. But actually, one of the most popular things that people do when they go to Japan is work in like an English language Cafe, and you are essentially paid to speak English to people. Amazing, amazing. Yeah, Coach people in their English skills. So it's, it's more accessible than maybe it seems on the tin. Yeah.
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And for you personally, what's the most interesting cultural or most challenging cultural experience you've had? Because you've worked for the organization for eons now, haven't
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you? Yes, yeah, approaching, approaching 10 years, with, with, with jenza, the gender group. And, yeah, it's, I would probably say, in terms of my personal interactions, and I've kind of worked with the different people we have all around, all around the world. Japan probably is the one that kind of stands out as kind of the most culturally different, and the kind of the one that's made me stop and kind of question a little bit, you know, am I doing things right in terms of personal experience, I guess I would go back to my very first day I mentioned, already at summer camp in the USA as my biggest personal culture shock of, Oh, wow. This. This is really like the movies, am I inside the Parent Trap right now? Like, amazing, wow.
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And if I'm a parent considering this for my team, because, as you said, it's good to start thinking about it before it's upon us. I mean, interestingly, this winter holiday, I kept talking to different people. And you know, a number of people will find that they're, you know, they said to me, oh, gap year is a complete waste of time, you know, all this stuff. And then then they find their child has to take one for some reason, and they suddenly start saying to me, oh, it's been amazing. But if you're, but let's say you are planning ahead, rather than it being a sudden, need to fill the gap. What would you say parents need to look for in terms of knowing that their child is going to be suitable for something like this? Because I'm sure a lot of parents would be concerned about
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that. Yeah.
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Well, firstly, I would just say, for anyone that says a gap year is a is a wasteful time, you know, we do. I hear it every so often, and I always try and pivot that to say it's an investment, it's actually an investment in a whole other stream of learning. So don't you know? I encourage absolutely everyone to think of a gap here as an investment, rather than a break from any learning. It's just a movement to a different stream of. Learning different skills, and arguably just as important skills that would couldn't agree more in mental life, but in terms of Yeah, some of the things that that you can do as a parent thinking about yeah your children, perhaps doing these experiences in the future, there are, I would say, building as many opportunities as you can to have your team practice decision making, and creating kind of opportunities for perhaps, like micro trips, or, you know, places they can go supervised or with friends, giving them opportunities for things like, kind of in the UK, like the Duke of Edinburgh Award scheme and that for some sort of building independence. Or in the US, actually being a camper at a summer camp is a great way to kind of build on the skills you need to be a good traveler or Independent Traveler, and then, you know, other things to think of, I guess, as a parent as well. And perhaps one of the most valuable things about a working holiday for a young person is also the ownership over the entire experience, whether it's from choosing the destination and what they do to filling out the visa paperwork or navigating finances, the journey on a work for a working holiday starts long before. And I would say the most crucial thing you can try and do is not micromanage or kind of overbear your influence on any of it and let led as much as possible by by that young person, be the greatest cheerleader that you possibly can from the from the sidelines, but be the person who encourages them and supports them, listens when they need it, but encourage them to take the lead.
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So just put the information in front of them and say, Is this something that interests you? Delve into it.
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Sort of guide them a little bit, but let them get on with
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exactly that the trip that will never be a success is the trip that you're told you're going on. It has to be the one that you choose. And, yes, yeah, really interesting. Again, they may, they may well need some strong cheerleading. Yeah, you know, getting, getting the upfront information, but helping them make the decisions and and then actually engage with the trip that they might be interested in, I would say, is the most powerful thing you can do, and keep pushing them to take ownership over that themselves.
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And if I'm
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a parent who really doesn't have a huge amount of money, so I mean, you know, it's quite hard for a lot of parents nowadays, what's, what are the upfront costs, and can my kids earn them back. How is this going to work? Yeah,
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absolutely.
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So there are upfront costs to all of these programs, things like visas, insurance, there's travel to think about, and participation costs in each program. They are again going back kind of the benefits of working travel. You can offset those costs by what you're earning. Absolutely, as somebody who did it myself. I was completely self funded. I spent my summers working as a lifeguard, earning up the money to do it. And again, I guess this, this might actually impact where you might decide to go, and what, what you might decide to do if you want to go and spend a year in a in Australia, for example, you you might want to have a little bit more in reserve than if you were going to work at a summer camp for eight weeks with that, for example, you you will definitely earn more than you're going to pay up front. It depends a lot on on what you do, why, while you are abroad. The other thing I would just, I would just call out, is, as part of Jen's quest to make this as accessible as possible, we also have a scholarship fund. Amazing.
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There's our scholarship fund, or there are the equivalent. I often encourage people to speak to their local institutions or schools or other potential funding bodies. There's, there's a lot of opportunity for support and taking part in these, these types of trips. I know that in universities, for example, there's the Turing funding in the UK that can support on programs like this. But there's no getting away from it.
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Traveling does cost. Does cost money. But I would say that for somebody thinking that they might not be able to afford it, I would really encourage, like, taking a closer look and talking to someone about it to see actually how accessible it could be, so
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they could start planning, like, doing summer jobs and things, so that they're building a fund over time to actually be able to do this eventually. So that's why planning ahead can be really useful. Also, I'm interested, because we have a lot of, well, we've got listeners in 176 countries. I think I are all of them going to be suitable? What kind of passports do they need?
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It depends on the country. Every country has different requirements in terms of passport nationalities, probably the country that we work with that accepts the broadest range of passports is actually the UK. Interesting. So we are a visa sponsor for the UK. We sponsor young people to come and do internships in the UK, and we can accept any passport nationality at all through that program. And then the US, for example, they accept a very broad range of passports for some of their summer programs. And yeah, Australia and New Zealand, again, a broad range, but it kind of just funnels down, I would say, a little bit. So I think there's around 30 passport nationalities. I can't reel them off top my head. Yeah, it's.
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Definitely a part of the research process, and again, they're part of actually understanding and planning where are you going to go, what are you going to do as part of your working holiday? Finally,
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what would you say to parents? They're committed to this. Their kids have got, you know, they're going. What would be your main advice to parents, because a lot of this program is about us parents and manage our own feelings?
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Yeah, I would, I would say, take on that cheerleader role, create as much opportunity for your your child to own their experience and foster as much independence in them as you possibly can from as soon as you can, you know, a lot like I said, the trip starts long before they leave home.
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Cheer them on and encourage them as much as you can, and keep talking about all of the broader benefits that somebody's going to going to have by taking part in an opportunity like,
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like a work abroad. Yeah, great tips, or great tips. Adam, absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for joining us. If people are listening to this and thinking, oh, I need to find out more, where do they find the information? Absolutely, yeah.
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So it's just www dot jenza, and that's J E NZA.com where everything's possibly needed,
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and you're on social media and things like that too. I'm sure, yes,
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absolutely, just J E N Z A travel and you'll find us in all the all the channels, I'll
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have the link in the in the podcast. Notes, brilliant. Thanks so much. Thank you. That was Adam janaway, Head of Global Operations at JENZA.
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All of the links you need are in the podcast. Notes, thanks again to jensa for your sponsorship.
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It's really appreciated. And before I go, if you have any other suggestions, particularly for younger teens. Then let me know. Over the winter holiday, I met a Dutch lady who said loads of the Dutch kids she knows have spent a summer working in a wildlife camp in Namibia, which sounds amazing. Let me know what experiences you've had and what you thought of them teenagers.
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Untangled@gmail.com you can find me on all social media and also at my website, www.teenagersuntangled.com don't forget to share this with anybody else who might benefit.
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Have a big hug from me and a great week. Bye, bye for now you
