Transcript
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Hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug for parents going through the teen and tween years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters.
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Hi there. I'm Susie Asli, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist and musician and mother of three teenagers. Two of them are twins.
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Now we had a message saying, I'd love someone to do a deep dive on siblings who don't talk to each other, investigate their childhood, parental relationships, etc. Is there a secret to making sure your kids don't hate each other someday? Mmm, well, I do have some tips, but it's a great topic, because sibling relationships are the longest lasting relationships in well, most people's lives, right? And having looked into it, the researchers say it's it's actually been understudied compared to other family relationships. Yeah, didn't know about that. I was also talking with a mother called Helen, who said she's noticed a huge number of her friends and her have really difficult relationships with their sisters. Yes, in her case, she and her sister were fine, but have become increasingly estranged since she married a man who was making a lot of money and moved to an expensive location abroad. They offered to pay her sister's airfare so that she could spend time together, but the sister has become increasingly bitter and angry with her and she doesn't know why it's all sort of panned out this way. So we'll talk generally about the factors in our own family setups that affect sibling relationships long term and and try to help Helen with some ideas about how she can ameliorate that situation. Yeah, right. Let's start with the nugget.
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Nugget. So it's just a little fun one. I went to a concert on a few days ago with my partner and one of my kids, which sounds amazing. Jacob Collier. He is unbelievable. I highly, highly, highly recommend,
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spoken by a very skilled musician here, and
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he's a musical genius. It was brilliant. And it was just so much fun to go with with with one of my kids, because he loves music. He's really, he's really into music, and we have quite different music tastes. But I love hearing, hearing what he likes.
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So it's more of a sort of appreciating together from a different perspective. And he came along with a really open mind. Didn't really know any of the music I'd played a bit, and he was a bit like, I'm not sure, but I'll come anyway. I said it would be inspiring, because the guy is a genius, like, whoever, it will be interesting. And the band was incredible, and he loved it. And it was just really fun sharing that experience. And I think it's really nice to do things like that. We can't always go out and, you know, buy tickets to do stuff, but to share. I mean, to be honest, it's just as much fun listening in the car to the stuff that he he yes to sharing, sharing.
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And you know what will happen is, over the years, I have found so, for example, my daughter sent me a song by Alicia Keys the other night, because we do this, we exchange songs all the time. And I said, Oh, I love that song.
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And then I suddenly thought, Oh, I remember going and seeing something, I think was called Shadowlands. And it was a theater, theater performance, and it had Alicia Keys music New York, singing, playing in the background. And so I sent it back to her, and it suddenly popped all these memories for us. And I just think these special events, and however rare they are. Can, can they just add depth to the relationship? If you suddenly have transported back to a special moment, absolutely
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and wonderful. And also my son, because I am a musician like some sound, you know, he appreciates that sometimes and sometimes. Well, it's funny. It's funny. I did a concert quite a few years ago, and I played, and I played with the violinist, and we played, and at the end, he hadn't heard me play for years. And normally, at home, if I practice, he's come and shut the door and go, mom, turn it down. Don't have a pony bun.
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And after the concert, he kind of close to me went, Oh, you're quite good. You should do that. You should do that. You could do that as a job. Hint I have been
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Yeah, never mind. I love sharing. Experience is really
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fun. I love it.
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I was talking with my bonus daughter the other day, and she asked me to tell her what I see in her so I started to explain what a magnificent woman she is.
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And she stopped me saying, no, no, no, what are the like? What I want you to talk about, the like? What are the negatives?
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Oh, what do you see I'm doing wrong, but I refuse to engage.
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And I explained to her how she is being affected by her negative bias, and she's not interested in the positive things I say about her, because those things aren't they're not going to hurt her. So she was hunting for the negative things.
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And, you know, I said, when we shine a light, we that's where we look, and I don't want to shine a light on those things, because that's not how I see her. So, you know, the problem is, if we, if we, if our kids, we hunt for the negative things, and we say, well. Should I be changing or we highlight the negative things? When we're talking to our kids, all you're going to do is make them think that those things are really big on our minds, and hopefully they're not, because we all make mistakes, and I see her as something, you know this, it's not really what I think about when I think about her, and that's why I think it's so important that we are mindful about not just keep highlighting negative things or pointing at them, because otherwise they will start thinking that's all you think about them. So I refuse to engage. Yeah, it was a really interesting thing, and I wanted to make it really clear to her that that's not not how I see her, and that we all make mistakes. Yeah. Anyway, coming back to sibling relationships, we both have sisters, an older sister, yeah, yes, both of us.
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I'm very different from mine. In fact, so different from all my family that people used to regularly ask if I was adopted, which is really odd to start with. And all of my kids, including my bonus daughters, are really different. So the truth there's a lot of families, you know, people had this idea, oh, we brought them up the same, but you didn't, you didn't. And they are different. You know, they come out different. So, you know, whilst we like to kid ourselves that we are doing the same thing with our kids, we're not, no,
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even with twins, even with twins, no, absolutely,
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absolutely.
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There will be all sorts of factors that will be a play there that will make a difference anyway. So let's, let's have a look at what the research says about this particular thing. So adult relationships and how they're affected by, you know, their upbringing. So according to a study published by the Children and Family Research Center, adult sibling relationships can be categorized into types such as supportive, competitive apathetic and longing
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and longing. Oh, interesting.
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I think my relationship with my sister, from my side, having asked her I should ask her, is apathetic, okay? And I don't mean that in a mean way. I just mean, you know, we're so different. Yeah, we're living such different lives.
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There's, there's very little connection, but I care about her, and I want her to be happy.
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Yeah, what's the longing one?
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Come on to that? Okay, yes, curious. Um, well, research seems to show that sister pairings are the closest. Tend to be the closest, but they also face more frequent conflicts.
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Brother pairings tend to be the most competitive, okay? It also reveals that 10 to 15% of adult sibling pairs experience high conflict or even estrangement, while 24% Express longing for deeper connection. Okay, that's the longing interesting. They want something more. They want to be and actually, you know, I talk to my teenagers, and one of them often says, I just long for more closeness. And it's not that she's not being given attention, it's that's just, you know, sometimes one really, really loves, would love it to be closer, yeah, which is lovely, but it's also painful if you're not getting what
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you want.
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Absolutely. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, why it changes in adulthood and why it changes at a particular time. I think we've super, obviously, super affected by the way we're brought up by parents and all of that stuff. And I think that festers. I think it does. And I think, I think if we don't sort of deal with it along the way, which sometimes we don't even notice or know it's there, and we change. And suddenly we maybe, when we get, you know, to midlife, we're a bit suddenly, a bit more authentic in who we are, and maybe less willing to compromise on some of those things. And or they become clearer in some way. And all those tiny, weeny little things have accumulated, and suddenly they're they feel bigger and more unbearable somehow, I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting, though. I see it. It's
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a really interesting area. And I just want to say, once again, I give you statistics, but they're really not set in stone. I mean, this is still an there isn't enough research, and there's a lot of conflict in the research in terms of what they say. Well, there's not a lot of agreement in the research over it's definitely this. But one of the things that is pretty clear, which is obvious, is that whatever their age, siblings have better relationships when they perceive that they are or were treated fairly by their parents. Yes, equitably, yeah.
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And it doesn't make a difference if the parents are alive or still alive or not, does it not?
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I'm not sure that that's true, because that is different, like that. That's not true for me.
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No, it's not true for me. It's, it's, it's less painful for me,
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yeah, because you're not being faced with it in the present moment. I It's his historical Yes.
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Is much less painful for me now that my parents are deceased, even, yeah, even though we all know that favoritism isn't healthy.
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Research says it still occurs in about 65% of families. Yeah.
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Well, I
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mean, you were human beings, aren't we? Sometimes favoritism just is a biochemical reaction, isn't it? Or, I don't know how to define it, but it's what we do with it and how we show it, isn't it? Yeah, and this
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is across different cultures. It's not just one culture, yeah. Yeah, and in fact, it's considered such an important factor in a range of emotional problems that psychologists have a name and an acronym for it, parental, different parental, differential treatment, or PDT, okay, I saw this in one of the research studies. I was reading, and, you know, it was quite sort of technical language. And I was thinking, Oh, I don't know what is that? What is and then I found I Okay, now I understand.
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So if you hear PDT, it's not PTSD it's PDT, right, interesting. So years ago, I just want to mention this, because when I was growing up and throughout my life, I've always said to people who have really great relationships with their siblings or their parents, what did your parents do? Right?
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And I remember many years ago, speaking to this woman who had several they're all girls, several sisters, and I think three or four. And I said to her, what did your parents do?
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Because, no, no, she said that the thing, the place in the world I'd most like to be is at home with my family and my sisters. I just went, really, okay, what did your parents do?
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Right? And she said, Well, that's easy. We were together one day, and one of my sisters said, Oh yeah, that's because I'm the favorite. And we all stopped and went, No, no, I'm the favorite. And then we looked at each other and thought, Oh, wow. We all grew up thinking we were favorites. That's so funny.
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I don't know how you pull that thing off.
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You know, my kids had a phase where they where they said they were. They were kind of joking, but there's a lot of truth in jokes. Sometimes where they were, they were kind of battling out, who's the favorite, who's the favorite.
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They kept asking and waiting for me to cave, and of course, they also knew I never would, and I genuinely don't have a favorite, as all of us would probably say.
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But sometimes kids pick up on it differently, don't they? And I think the role, another point isn't the role. You are the number sibling. You are like the eldest, the middle, the youngest. I think you pick up on the signals from your parents really different, and that can be interpreted as favorite or not favorite, but it's not necessarily, but that's a different thing. But they kept asking me, like, who's favorite?
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And eventually they've given up, and they've gone, you don't have a favorite, but they went all through all if they were to talk to me separately, at some point, they were went, Yeah, I'm obviously the favorite, but I don't
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say that anymore, but, but I think a lot of families where there is a favorite is not talked about, yes, so we'll come on to that, but that's actually quite damaging anyway,
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but I do think that the like the First Born. I've been thinking about this quite a lot lately, that the first born is has such a different role, like in so many different ways, and the way that they're parented, and especially when in our generation, where we're all such project parents, trying to do everything so brilliantly, and the first one gets the brunt of that, and that has massive progression minuses, and they have a they have a role, and they could easily go either way.
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Couldn't it, they could pick up as, I'm the favorite, because I'm so special, I have so much attention, or I'm the, you know, I'm the one that is never right.
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I mean, they're always trying to make me different. And by the time you get to number three or number four, if you have that, you're like, Yeah, whatever. And then the dog doesn't get it, yeah, and then so they have a very different perception of how they fit in in the family. And perception
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is really important, yeah. So, so it may not be that the parents necessarily are favoring somebody in their heads. It's being perceived that way. So that's a very important point.
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And and even though it's the parents who create this sense of favoritism, and it's kind of their responsibility to notice and do something about it. It's still going to have its impact amongst the siblings and whether they're aware of it or not, and will increase the tensions and conflict. And Lori Kramer, who's professor emeritus at the Department of Human Development and Family Studies in Illinois, says we don't tend to talk enough about it, and that makes it harder to clear up any hurt or misunderstandings. Like if you actually said, Do you feel like there's a favorite and you were open about it, then there could be an open discussion.
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Yeah. And she says if these situations were addressed in a sensitive manner where no one feels they're being blamed, then you could solve some of these problems. And she says, If parents, for example, asked, you know, do you if a parent listens? And she says, If the parents, say, for example, asked is, do you think there's a favorite sibling? And then they listened and took on board what was being said, instead of getting upset, yes, because that's the hard thing to do that. I find that hard. If my kids level criticisms at me, which they regularly do, then, you know, sometimes it will hit a raw nerve, and I'll, I'll just think, we'll wait, and you still have to acknowledge that's how they feel, whether it's true, because then you can address it.
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Can't you absolutely
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100% that takes a lot of courage and a lot of self reflection, which is, isn't always easy. I think sometimes it's this idea of, you know, especially when they're little, but maybe that carries on as well, this idea of things not being fair. We've talked about this before, like it's not fair, and the idea behind that is that, you know, they we should treat them the same, equally, which I disagree with, and you can't and. We've often talked about that openly, especially when they're a little you know, your needs are different. So I'm, I'm behaving, and I'm, I'm responding to your needs. And today, your brother has a lot of needs, and tomorrow it might be you, for example. So today, it doesn't feel fair for you because you're getting less attention, but your needs are less and I think that's often seen interpreted differently and wrongly. I think that's and the
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trick is being what's lovely is you're open about it. I do think it becomes very complicated when you've got a special needs that can really skew all of this and make it much harder. But even then, it's about having conversations.
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Yeah, it's about being open, so and kids
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get it. And also there's that just, just lastly, there's also, I think, a difference between, like, favorite like, we have different energy with different people, don't we, so there's kind of this idea of, there are some kids who are easier to be with, like, ease of being like, they're more, I don't know, maybe they're jokey, or they're just, they send out a vibe where you just go, Ah, this is fun.
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Yeah. And then there are some kids who are the opposite of that, and they're harder to hang out with, but that doesn't make them you like them less, but they might again perceive it in that way, yeah. And
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I want to do an entire episode actually, on what, how you cope when you have one outlier, because I think almost every family will have in their kids, one kid who isn't like the other people in that family, like all the people like this, this, this and this, and then that one child doesn't.
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Yeah, and how you can adjust your expectations in your family. You know, I had several people come up to me saying, Oh, I've got a real crier. I don't know what. We're not crying family. We don't, we don't dissolve What do I do? You just say, Don't worry. It's normal for some kids to express themselves in different ways, and it's how do you cope with having to speak their different language? Yeah, we
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have to find out what their language is. Don't we interact with them over that rather than make them all the same? Yes, exactly.
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So rather than just, I don't want to just dwell on the PGT as you there are other things. So the research also suggests adult siblings whose parents are alive have closer relationships than those whose parents are deceased. I can see that because I think that the parents often are the glue that holds it together. My grandparents in law used to have a summer party where all the family came with a, you know, a potluck food, and they just spent time together, yes, you know. And if those people are not doing that, and I've done that with Christmas, for, you know, members of my family, extended family, if people don't do that, then it doesn't happen.
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No. Research also suggests adult siblings who are married or have children have less supportive and close relationships with their siblings than adults who are single, divorced or widowed.
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Oh, that's interesting, which is also interesting because I guess there are more things in the pot. There are more stirrers of the pot as well. Yeah,
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because both ways, surely, though, because if you have cousins who get on well, and you want them to hang out, then that is, yeah,
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absolutely can help. That can definitely help.
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But I think, I think because what's happened is, if you marry this person and they don't particularly like your sibling, or you don't need your sibling as much, because now you're connected with someone else, that can set up resentment in the sibling, or it just means you're both going in more extreme directions. And, you know, can it can
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again, if there's a mismatch in partners, that can be really Yes, and
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findings seem to support that marital conflict is associated with conflict in sibling relationships. If you are not getting on with your partner, it's more likely that the siblings are going to have problems with each other. Oh, generally more
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argumentative, correct?
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Probably I don't. Maybe
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just not even noticing, you know you're it's because it's stressful if you're having a bad marriage. I mean, that
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sounded very judgmental of me. I have just put
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that out there, and it says marital warmth is linked to positive sibling relationships. But some research has found that warm and supportive sibling relationships can protect children from the negative impact of their parents, marital conflict. I mean, I I've seen this real time happening with one of my daughter's friends, where she has a twin, and one of the twins is now living with the Father, and one is living with, oh, crikey. It's painful. That is hard, yeah. And it happens and, you know, yeah, no judgment here. It's they're having to sort out something very complicated, but it's difficult.
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It's complicated. So I'm going to say that a few times. Yeah,
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family is complicated, and it can be super beautiful as well. Yeah.
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And one of the things you can look at is transitions. These are the pinch points. So the transitions are things like when people get married, when they start having children, when their career changes, when they you know, all those things, like they move or they've gone to university, the things which change the dynamic.
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One thing we parents can do, which you've done wonderfully, where your son's gone to university, and you've sort of kept him in the fold, you know, you've got, you've flexed to allow him to keep his relationships with his.
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Siblings, but at the same time to grow and I think these kind
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of things, but I think it's
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noticing that with transitions taking place, how can I ensure that there's somehow, there's some connection there when we're spending and, you know, a friend of mine's son was having some problems, she brought her daughter home so that they could spend time together, yes, which is really beautiful, because they probably do can support each other. They can,
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and I have noticed, actually, with mine. I mean, we went to just my son went, and we went to visit his elder brother at uni just recently, and my daughter couldn't come. And I've had this before, but there are moments where you kind of where I've just stepped back and watched them and gone, oh, they love function. Yes. And, and I am, aside from you, yes, magical. And I, you know, this will continue, yeah.
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And I think some of the diet, there are dynamic things in a sibling relationship which can have a dramatic impact. And it's things like rivalry and competition I'll put, I can put this in a PDF or something, I might put it in a blog or something. I'll find some way of getting it out to people if they want to see all of it. But so rivalry and competition can really cause issues roles in their family. So if you say you're the smart one, you're the musical one, you're the sporty one, really, really, you're boxing them in unresolved emotional baggage. So if they did have something happen, and it wasn't discussed, trust me, it could even pop up when they're 40. Yeah, absolutely.
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This is really problematic. And any jealousy or envy, again, if it's not dealt with, like you've said before, with the balloon that gets pushed down at some point, it's highly likely to pop
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up, pop up. Yeah, and I think we, you know, if, if our kids, and it's highly likely this happens, because we are imperfect human beings, they might feel like they're not being seen, loved and heard exactly as as they are in their family life. And then your parent relationship is, is the one you need to be seen and loved and heard just exactly as you are by and then your siblings are the ones getting in the way of that. So always your competition in that. So if you if there's an unhealthy thing going on underneath, then your your siblings are in in the firing line there, emotionally, and that's really important.
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Whereas if you're in a healthy family where they feel loved and seen as who they are. Then, then difference is allowed, and it's less. There's less pressure on that. The love from the parent.
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This is not as competitive, and
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it's not a zero, something they don't feel like as soon as somebody starts being having a light shine on them that they got to somehow jump up, because otherwise they'll lose out. Yeah,
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there's like, if it's a scarcity, yeah, family, like, there's not enough love to go around. I need to fight you for it. If it's abundant, there's plenty to go around, there's less, there's less friction with the siblings.
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Personality
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differences can be key, clash and communication, styles or temperaments, values and priorities, they it's interesting because I've done an exercise with my kids where we've worked out what our values are, and one of my kids has quite strong values that are different and and I think it's really worth knowing and understanding what the values are and seeing mapping them as they go along, because they can become stronger as they get older, which can cause a wedge to grow. Or you can learn ways to communicate about your values and how they're different, but they're fine. You know, you know, you can find a way to build a bridge if you understand what each other's values are and where their differences are coming from,
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and why something that in your head seems crazy is important to them
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exactly, exactly it's having a way of talking about it. You know, there's life circumstances that are going to do all these things. The way that life unfolds makes it unbelievably complicated, which is why I think studies on this have quite tricky to conduct right.
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Financial strains can kick in, because, you know, when you're all under one house, if you're hopefully, if you're doing it well as a parent, they will feel that they're getting equal treatment. But then we've all heard about the situation where one child, you know, they need money for something, the parents give their money, and then the other kids go, Well, wait, what about me? Yeah, oh, I haven't got the money for that because I've given it to Yes. And these things can cause massive strains on a relationship, so it's figuring out how you're going to manage these things and talk to each other about them.
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I think also with roles that you're talking about, the different roles that we give kids, which can be really unhelpful. I think our emotional roles. We've talked about this before, that triangle pattern of the Cartman triangle, which is when we relate to each other emotionally, there's a victim role, a persecutor and a What's the rescuer, and we if we don't communicate cleanly and take responsibility for our communication and our emotions, then we ping around in this unhelpful triangle, and we are the victim or the persecutor or the fixer. And I think these can come out more later in life. So if you have one of these where you don't communicate properly, and you're like, one of these, the victim always, or one of you is always fixing, which can happen with siblings, like being fixing, fixing, and then the dynamic changes. Or one. The sibling, yes, something happens, or they do, maybe some work on themselves, and they grow up and mature. Or, you know, life happens in all these wonderful various ways, and that shifts, then that can be quite problematic, because then suddenly you're like, Well, I don't know which role I've lost my role, because I'm not saying this game anymore. Where are you kind of thing? And I think maybe that changes,
00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:25.519
and they can react badly to them. Yeah, I find that very threatening. I don't know what
00:25:25.579 --> 00:25:36.140
my role is anymore, or why aren't you doing what you normally do? And yes, yeah, yeah, awareness, but not, not everybody goes down the same path of awareness as us, and that can be challenging as well,
00:25:36.140 --> 00:26:52.359
absolutely. So let's have a quick talk about Helen's particular situation. I think managing this kind of, you know, when you've got financial disparities that can touch on deep feelings of pride, inadequacy, resentment. It happens in a lot of families, and it can happen between friends, where you've got a great friend and suddenly one of them starts earning a lot more than the other. And how do you manage this? And I think acknowledging her feelings without assuming how she feels can be very helpful. So, you know, we've noticed some distance, and we're wondering if something we've done is upset you, and, you know, talk about it, adjust how you frame generosity, so focusing on togetherness rather than charity. So saying we really miss you, and we'd love to treat you to a visit, because it's so important to us to have you here, yeah, so they don't feel like it's a charity, because it can be very painful. Yeah, and avoid unintentional displays of wealth, which is an obvious one, but it's really difficult. And and setting boundaries around the generosity. So you know, you can feel like you've just got so much, you've got boundless resources and and they haven't you, and they don't want to feel like they're the underling. So maybe rather saying, Well, should we go halves? Would you Would that make? Yeah? Would you like that? Yeah, give sleep, because what you're doing is you're complimenting them when you do that, which you would probably don't think you are.
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:59.920
But obviously, pick a cheap restaurant or something where it's not going to break them and show interest in her world.
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:14.099
Yeah, you know what is, what is making her to what is actually floating her boat, what, how is she seeing her life unfold, and what's exciting her and what's troubling her? And it may be that there are things that it's not even about you, yeah, and
00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:48.759
I think sometimes it's, it takes a little bit of time to sometimes we these things. Is probably not an overnight thing that's happened is built up over a long time, so it's not going to go away overnight, either. And sometimes we just have to show up and show up and show up and just be, be there. And I think we have there is the sort of beautiful underlying thing between siblings. There's some stuff that we've experienced as kids that you know, you don't experience with anybody else, and that has pluses and minuses with it, but a lot of pluses, like a general understanding. So just showing up and showing you, know, I love you, I care about you, and I'm not going away.
00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:48.759
Yes, the
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:59.140
unconditional and Yeah, and just be kind to yourself. It's not, it's not necessarily anything you've done particularly wrong or that you can fix. You know, you have to work through it with them just by
00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:01.799
being kind. And money is tricky, because it's never really money,
00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:45.160
isn't it? Robot the money. So things that we do or don't do in the home that can really cause problems. And I think this is useful, and I'll put these in the notes, and that because there are key things that we can avoid that might make a massive difference. So inconsistent discipline, and we've done an episode on creating consequences and having rules. And I think that when we don't have routine or consistency in what we think is is we haven't really thought it through, it can then come across as as your favorite, you're favoring one rather than the other, rather than you just haven't thought it about, thought it through. And this can particularly happen with older siblings, where they get this.
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:54.640
Like, you know, you can't do that because and then. But when it comes to the younger ones, you think, Oh, this is actually not that important, no, unless you need to have the stuff on the table so people can see.
00:28:52.420 --> 00:28:57.220
It's not that you're favoring one, it's that you've learned or be
00:28:57.220 --> 00:29:07.920
totally open about it. I've been called out. They can That's so annoying. Like, we've talked about it, and he's giving me feedback, and I've gone, yeah, I changed my mind.
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:21.740
I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, I was wrong with you, and I realized it wasn't that important. So I was more relaxed the second time around or third time around, and he's and he laughs and thinks it's annoying, but you know, can also see the humanness in that as well, yeah. But
00:29:21.740 --> 00:29:31.160
I think it's so even things like, I mean, the consistency really affects them.
00:29:25.220 --> 00:29:46.779
So my sister was growing up as a teenager at a time when we had more money, yes. And I clocked every single thing she got given. Nearly five years later, we didn't have money, yeah. And side of me kept thinking they don't love me as much, you know.
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:57.160
And you if we'd had proper conversations about them saying, This is what we love you in this way, yeah, it's not about the gift, it's then that would have meant so much to me. Yes, absolutely. I think that's yeah.
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:59.920
Don't cast them into roles. This whole thing we've made.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:36.079
Mentioned already, because once you do that, you give them, they've already got a birth order for goodness sake. So once you actually allocate a role for them, they're stuck, and it can actually affect their entire worldview and how they view their sibling. So the more we steer away from this. And so Okay, your daughter's tone deaf and the other ones are, you know, perfect pitch, let the tone deaf one sing, no matter how painful, because Singing isn't only supposed to be the preserve of the talented. It should be something that we all enjoy, same with art, same with you know, we need to sort of accept that you don't have to be perfect, yeah, to do something.
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:36.259
And
00:30:36.259 --> 00:30:47.740
culture draws against us a little bit in lots of ways in that, but in one of the ways it is, is also in a very well meaning way of like, Oh, we've got to help our kids find the thing they're good at.
00:30:44.440 --> 00:31:01.920
And, oh, that makes my skin cool. There you have lots of things they are good at, and maybe they enjoy the things they're not good at, you know, like, who cares? But we, if we get obsessed with the thing, then we, then we, then that's when we label them. Or you're the swim, you're the academic, because you're good at it. And
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:38.779
I think conflict avoidance is another one that's really, really important. And what I mean by that is when we so. So David Jacob talked about this in 10 to 25 and in my interview, and he said, the thing is, there will be conflict, and what we need to be prepared to do is not shut it down thinking, oh god, they're they're arguing. We're in the shopping mall, my kids are arguing. And this, this, this invisible or even in that your own house. What does this say about me as a parent, that my children are arguing? What does it say about me as a parent that these, all these other parents are looking at me and think I'm a terrible parent. I can't bear the chaos. Quiet. Yes, don't he says, Don't waste an argument.
00:31:38.779 --> 00:31:47.380
And what he means by that is, use it as an opportunity to try and get them to see each other's side and then let them solve it.
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:58.779
Yeah. So it's, it's almost like a it's a way of trying to get them unstuck, because they'll be and if you can just go in and say, oh, so what. So you were thinking this, and you were thinking that, what do you think would be a good solution? Yeah.
00:31:58.900 --> 00:32:04.259
And letting them solve it, rather than trying to adjudicate which is the terrible role today? Yeah, don't want that role,
00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:14.819
no. And it doesn't serve them at all in the long and the long run, I actually watched my twins yesterday making up. Yeah, it's once they've learned the skill. It's beautiful,
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:25.220
yeah, yeah. And I think this whole comparison again, it's, you know, where you put people in a role, or you say, Oh, your sister's so good at getting up in the morning.
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:43.599
Why go like, why can't you? No, no, what you do is you notice the behavior, and you talk about the behavior in isolation. So you say, I see you're struggling to get up in the morning. What can we do about that? It's not you don't try and do whatever you do, not compare them with each other, yeah, which can be really difficult, so difficult.
00:32:40.839 --> 00:33:20.220
And, you know, we know what interesting is, I have a very academic child, and the other one admits she's not academic, and that's because we don't care, like we don't mind at all what they how they pursue their life, as long as they find something there where they're giving back and they have purpose. And I've said that many times. And what was so interesting is recently, my my non academic daughter said to me, I don't think we gave Phoebe enough praise for her achievements in her exams. I mean, we didn't do anything like we didn't do it. We should have gone, oh, this is unbelievable.
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:20.220
What you got. It's really sweet.
00:33:20.279 --> 00:34:28.340
And I said to her, yeah, no, you're and I thought, God, that's because we didn't want to make it a big name. But it was really sweet that she's noticed, yeah, and felt that we'd under something. It's very hard to get it right. Yeah, that's very sweet. It's very hard. But, you know, she had noticed that she she, she's now at an age where, because she doesn't feel compared, that's a sign of healthy relationship, where she doesn't feel compared, so she's, she feels it's okay to say, oh, celebrating, yeah, it's beautiful. So it's a lovely sign. So yeah, I mean, the way we resolve these things is open communication, setting boundaries. So just explaining, you know, where, like, where do you how do you feel about these things, and how can we set a boundary around them and and just being accepting that we're different and we're not going to be right all the time, and we're going to make mistakes and parents, I mean, I said this recently to my bonus daughters, this, this is our first radio right? Yeah, I have not done this parenting thing. I mean, I've done it with them, but the relationship I had with them was when I was growing up as a parent, and now I'm doing it again with different children, but it's a different situation.
00:34:25.820 --> 00:34:39.679
And every single time you're learning again, and they are going through their life for the first time, and it's this kind of sense that our kids will look at us and think they should know what they're doing. Yeah, got news for you? Yeah, I don't. And
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:43.179
that's kind of freaky for them, isn't it? Like, yes, please be the ones you know. Who
00:34:43.179 --> 00:34:45.639
knows? Please know. Because I need someone who'll lead me doing this.
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:49.059
I've talked to my eldest about that. I'm really sorry you were, you were my guinea pig.
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:55.900
I did my best humanizing ourselves and saying, Do you know what? I'm so sorry if that's how this came across.
00:34:56.079 --> 00:35:13.139
I'm still trying to learn myself, and I'm trying to fix the stuff that happened to me as a kid. Good. So give me some grace here, and I'm going to give you all the grace I possibly can in the world. But once, if you have those open conversations and don't pretend you have to be perfect, they get it. They get it, and they feels, they still feel safe, yeah?
00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:15.780
Because they go, Oh, actually, actually, I can be honest, yeah.
00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:17.639
And there's safety and honesty, and it
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:19.980
teaches them sibling relationships as well, I think.
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:29.960
And I think that the relationships we have with our own siblings are really important to model how we how we are in them as well. So really important because they classic.
00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:47.260
They do what they see, yeah, and, and mine don't like it if, if there's anything going on with with my sibling, no, it's very painful. It's and they, they, they would rather it was, you know, it was all good. And finally, it's important we, we manage.
00:35:47.260 --> 00:35:59.260
They, they really notice what's going on with the family, whether the it's the extended family or the close family. And this is their identity. You know, being part of a family is important, yeah, and
00:35:59.260 --> 00:36:15.900
they pick up on our patterns. And I say there's no coincidence that in families, there's a can be a pattern of, you know, people cutting family members out, and then that becomes generational because there's learned behavior. Yes, that's a really good point.
00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:21.139
Yeah, so they we don't even know we're doing it, but we just, is, just digested as the norm we are. I
00:36:21.139 --> 00:36:26.719
would say this is, this is the richest families. These are our values.
00:36:22.940 --> 00:36:39.139
We all have a quirky one, at least one, and we all have the drinker, and we all have the so as long as they realize that some of these things are just normal. You know, we're not a broken family. Anyway. Susie, where can people find you? You can
00:36:39.139 --> 00:36:44.440
find me on my website, which is www dot, amindful hyphen life.co.uk,
00:36:45.699 --> 00:36:51.760
she does one to ones, but she also does amazing work in big groups with companies. Yep, you've been doing a lot of that. Yeah,
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:59.739
have webinars like people want in their business, in their workplace, small and large, give me a shout, and
00:36:59.739 --> 00:37:14.280
you always get excellent feedback. So yeah, there you are. If you want to reach me, it's teenagers untangled@gmail.com send your questions, send your complaints, send your reviews, your give us five stars present.
00:37:16.739 --> 00:37:37.820
And the website is www.teenagersuntangled.com I do write blogs there. Occasionally I will try and put a PDF or something on there, maybe not PDF, but something on there. And if you really want more on this, then I could just message me, and I can try and send you something. I might send it in the newsletter. Anyway, that's it for this week. I hope you have a great one. Yeah, goodbye.
00:37:37.820 --> 00:37:38.659
Fenw, goodbye. You.
