Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:02.819 --> 00:00:04.679
Rachel, hello and welcome to teenagers.
00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:37.159
Untangled, the award winning audio hub for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you'll remember the interview I did with Mike Nicholson of progressive masculinity. He spends his days going into schools, talking to groups of boys about masculinity and trying to encourage a more positive version of it. He recently mentioned that he's been seeing a lot of talk about looks maxing in his groups.
00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:55.719
Well, I hadn't even registered what it is, so I did a bit of research and discovered that it became popular as far back as the 2010s in groups on Reddit, but it's much more mainstream now, even if I hadn't clocked it, it's out there, and I thought it would be a great discussion for an episode. So welcome back, Mike.
00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.320
Thank you. Thank you for having me back. It's a pleasure.
00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:01.859
Now, firstly, let's start with the definition.
00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:06.359
Would you like to explain to us what you think of as looks maxing?
00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:19.200
Yeah, so looks maxing is pretty much what it says on the tin. It's the process of maximizing your looks and making yourself as physically attractive as possible in order to increase your SMV, your sexual marketplace value.
00:01:20.340 --> 00:01:28.939
Yes, and that SMV now that comes from or it's not such nice parts of the internet, am I right? No,
00:01:28.939 --> 00:01:38.060
it's not. But I mean, what we're going to talk about today in terms of lux, Max, and it's just the digital evolution, there's something that's something that's been going on for generations, is this is not new, no,
00:01:39.019 --> 00:02:10.560
no. It's really interesting, because I actually listened to a podcast yesterday, and it was a it was a man, a young man, who was talking about looks maxing, and he said, Look, a lot of people go in and they start on their bodies, and they work really hard on their bodies, but you're missing a trick. You're missing the important stuff or the extra and I when I sort of looked it up, I thought that I found that there were different ways of talking about looks maxing. So there's soft maxing and there's hard maxing. What's the difference?
00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:11.520
Yeah,
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:20.539
so soft maxing is things like skincare, hair styling, mewing, gym guidance.
00:02:14.939 --> 00:03:06.539
It's all stuff that is actually quite socially acceptable. You know things that you know when I was younger, going through those very difficult, transitional adolescent years, and you've left your child's body behind, but you're not in a man's body yet, and you feel awkward and you're desperate to achieve something that looks like what you think you're supposed to look like. So then soft maxing is the more what's considered as more socially acceptable branch of Lux maxing. But then it's a slippery slope. It's a slippery slope to hard max it. And hard maxing includes things like plastic surgery, implants, steroid use for quick gains in the gym, leg lengthening procedures, which is known as bone maxing. There's the suffix maxing. There's like, 50 words that have got maxing at the end.
00:03:03.300 --> 00:03:18.900
No, it's got a whole it is literally a lexicon. It's a specialized vocabulary list. And then you've also got things like moisturizes, which are white in the skin to, you know, so if you are black origin or Bane that, and that's actually called White maxing,
00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.699
right? Yeah.
00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.699
And as you said, this isn't new.
00:03:22.699 --> 00:03:48.400
I mean, we've all it's so interesting, because, from what I understand, when I talk to teenagers, including my teenagers, getting a mate gives you market value. It makes you feel it gives you cache in your groups. And having more than one person attracted to you is even more prestigious. And I suppose for guys who like competition and who feel that they want to have some prowess, that's going to be quite important,
00:03:49.180 --> 00:04:06.599
yeah. And it's an idea of masculinity that's promoted to us from young, you know, this kind of competition, masculinity based around patriarchy and to be successful, a big part of that is to be desirable to to the opposite sex and the opposite gender. And that's, that's what's sold to us through social cultural influences from a very young age
00:04:07.740 --> 00:04:17.040
now. So where are people getting this idea about looks Maxine? Where can we where can we find information about it if we're a teenager or stumble on it? Yeah. So like I said,
00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:51.160
it is just the digital evolution of something that's been going on for a very long time. It would be interesting to actually go back and look at and look at, you know, the 70s, 80s and 90s, and what, what the representation of masculine beauty was then. But in terms of today, you mentioned earlier that looks, the actual word looks. Maxim has been around since 2014 that's the earliest that I actually found it used around about Reddit. And as you know, Reddit is, you know, you can get anything you're looking for. You can find it on rigid unfortunately, for the good and the bad. But it wasn't until Tiktok came along that Lux maxing really hit mainstream and really became kind of popular.
00:04:47.920 --> 00:05:30.740
And now you've got dedicated Lux Max influencers who are set up just for Lux maxing, just to promote soft maxing, hard maxing. And you know, they're very popular. And what's really funny is, when we go into schools to work with teachers and parents, none of them have ever heard of Lux Max, but when we go to work with the pupils, they're all like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that guy, yeah. Sometimes I'm you Oh, you know. Sometimes they all know what it is, but it's kind of one of those things, because it has a coded language. We talked to about that lexicon, because it does have a coded language. It's hiding in plain sight. You know, they could be talking about it right in front of you, and you would know something was going on, because you intuitive, but you wouldn't have any idea what they're actually talking about.
00:05:31.399 --> 00:06:06.060
Yes, because the lingo of teens is so varied and complex, and very often it's there to sort of give them their own way of talking to each other about things, delivering it's interesting because I saw that there were models. There were models like Jordan Barrett and Francisco Lucho ski who become pin ups. And then one of the biggest names in Tiktok looks maxing is a guy called Kareem Shami, who's from San Diego, California, who goes by the user named Syrian psycho. 1.5 million followers. It's a lot Hey, and his profile picture is, I bet you know him, don't you? What's he was his profile picture? Yes.
00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:12.240
Oh, the fictional serial killer played by Christian Bale in American
00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:18.959
is the apex of INCEL beauty culture, and Karine Shaw is a really interesting figure.
00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:24.439
Actually, know, when we talk about why young men gravitate towards this kind of stuff. I can bring in some research and some academics for you later.
00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:58.720
But Kareem was born in Syria, and he was caught up in the civil war in Syria, and he was actually a refugee that traveled over to America, and he's done lots of videos to say that when he came over, he was bullied because of his teeth, his skin, he was considered to be quite short, his height and Lux Maxim was a way for him to regain some form of control over that. Now he he has actually gone from soft maxing to hard maxing. He is actually one of the leading proponents of, you know, bone smashing, leg length and that kind of stuff. And there are not many kind of popular hard maxes.
00:06:55.480 --> 00:07:06.060
Most of them are still soft. But here he is. He's one of the most popular. And like you said, your pack for your profile picture is Patrick Bateman. I mean, that should that should be ringing all the hand bells,
00:07:06.899 --> 00:08:14.519
yes, yes. And then there's Dylan Latham. I'm just going to mention these people because it's really it's sort of interesting for us to appear over the the fence. And his girlfriend dumped him during their junior year of high school, and so he decided to invest in his appearance, which actually, you know, a lot of this, if you look at it superficially, is really good. I mean, there are lots of parents who've got sons who won't wash, who would go, yeah, only. But, you know, he began spending hours in the gym applying homemade skincare and permed his hair and and it made him feel better. And so he set up his Tiktok account saying, you know, this is making you ugly, get a smaller nose. And his Tiktok clips have nearly 98 million likes, a billion views across social media. And he's now selling his own brand of hairspray. And he says it's really cool, because he says he's making six figures in revenue monthly from sales and social media. And the thing that's That's so clever about tick tock is you, he can be talking, and then the sell, the kind of sell button comes up, and you can buy the thing that he's talking about. This is, this is a, this is just a brilliant way money for someone.
00:08:14.519 --> 00:09:07.320
Dylan Latham is one of the ones that we actually use in our workshop program. He's a really interesting so I actually think there's a lot of positives with Dylan that are not there, maybe with Korean shammit, but I also think he does sometimes cross the line, no. And I think from a parental point of view, when I was thinking back to what it's like to be a teenage boy, excuse me, there's a lot of body pressure on us, and we are looking for ways to improve ourselves. And actually, a lot of the things he's saying can be very can be a great thing to go to the gym. The gym can be a great place of community and belonging, a healthy way to spend a time where, where we want to draw the line, though, is that you won't find your value in the gym, or you won't find your value. It can help you realize that you have value, but actually you had that value already. Your value as a man is fixed. It's immutable. It can't be taken away from you. And if you don't want to go to the gym, you shouldn't have to in order to earn it. And that's where I think Dylan gets it a little bit wrong. I, like a lot of his content actually given later.
00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:24.620
And you know, when he talks about, I'm not doing this, so you'll be really attracted to girls I'm doing this, so you will actually love yourself a bit more and be, you know, have more kind of confidence in yourself. It does also cross the line into sometimes, like you have to do this or you're nothing. And that's where I think it loses it loses me personally.
00:09:25.460 --> 00:09:50.620
So I think for parents, you know, when we sort of all the time, when we're talking about these things on this podcast, I really want to just positively help parents engage with their kids on topics that they are, that's part of their world, and be able to talk in a sort of intelligent way about it. And so it's that stuff where you can actually start a debate with your kid about, like, where is that line between it being negative and positive?
00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:58.840
And you mentioned a word called mewing, which is brilliant. You know, that's it sounds really not good. But do you want to sort of tell us what it's all about?
00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:51.940
Yeah. So we. Comes from Mike mu who's a British orthodontist who claimed to create a method of giving you a more defined and chiseled jawline by pushing tongue up to the roof of your mouth and keeping it there. It changes the shape of your face, and if you do it often enough, you can actually reach well, this is what he claims. You can actually restructure your facial makeup so your jawline is more kind of cut and defined, which is considered attractive. Now, what's really interesting is that the American Institute of orthopedics came out not long ago and said that the evidence that this works is as thin as dental floss, which I quite enjoyed the look at orthopedic banter there in Huber. But really, Mike mu is a grifter, like a lot of these online guys, you know, there is no, there's no solid scientific evidence that backs this up. But if a young man thinks that having a more defined jaw line will increase the sexual marketplace value so many lives we work with, I say, you know, have you?
00:10:51.940 --> 00:10:54.399
Have you nude? Some of them say, Oh, I tried it, but I like it.
00:10:54.399 --> 00:11:10.919
Someone say, oh, you know, do it half an hour every day, because that's what you're supposed to do. So yeah, these messages are because they're in such a vulnerable transitional state, and this is seen as a kind of easy fit. You know, you're not going to the gym, you know, to forecast lots of money. Grips like this are very, very powerful.
00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:13.379
It's so interesting because I saw that.
00:11:13.379 --> 00:12:11.578
It was because of a video posted in 2015 2017 on YouTube where Mike discussed the alleged harms of orthodontics, and in response, the British orthodontic society, he's a Brit, suspended him and reported him to a UK legal body, and there's been a seven year long investigation and court case, and the look maxing community turned them into rebel heroes, which has got which, and it's gone mainstream, whilst, you know, the detractors are saying that this is really not healthy, it's quite dangerous. And there's a Netflix documentary, which is called open wide, all about this case. So I think it's in the US. I don't think we can get it everywhere, but I've seen the trailer, and it's interesting because, you know, there's a lot of debate and a lot of the problems with some of the things, things that have been pushed forward. So it's a good thing to chat about again, because it's like you say, it's a grifter. We always
00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:23.120
talk about rabbit holes, don't we, with digital culture, this, this beginning of a rabbit hole. When you start going down viewing, you're then going into positive and negative cancels mog and moggers and mogging face theory. Wait,
00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:28.759
wait, wait, wait, wait, what are all these things? That's the wolf eyes, right?
00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:40.899
Cantle tilt is so the angle is basically the angle of the eye. So if you draw a straight line from the lateral canthus, which is the outside of the eye, to the medial canthus, which is the inside, if that line is pointed slightly down.
00:12:41.078 --> 00:12:57.099
That's what's known as Hunter eyes, and that's considered to be very attractive, if it's the other way, if you've got a negative cancel till that's known as prey eyes, and that's seen as unattractive. You know, there's obviously nothing you can do about the angle of your eyes. But this is, this is the world of Lux maxing,
00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:14.639
yes, and you I, I've seen people like the Kardashians have had eye surgery to make this look and when you have those filters on SNAP, I mean, I've even tried these sometimes because they're horrific. You know, they make your eyes in these weird shapes and and it doesn't look real.
00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:41.080
It's horrible. And I, and I remember when I was a TV presenter, I was promoted, promoted. Can you call it that, but you know, to being world news anchor. And they flew this, this, this woman over from America to tell me what I needed to do with my eyebrows and my hair and how to maximize my look and and she just pointed out all sorts of things that I just thought didn't know were wrong.
00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:41.379
And I you know, there's a danger to that.
00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:47.440
I've never felt something research. No, I thought, also, I thought I was maybe a steady five out of 10.
00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:51.100
But then I go into look. I go into the looks Max. Oh, my God, I'm hideous.
00:13:52.000 --> 00:14:03.840
And the truth is, you know, I mean, it was water off a duck. Back to me. I didn't really care. But one of the other presenters came out crying, because, you know, this is, it's not very helpful, is it particularly but it's actually, this is genetics,
00:14:03.840 --> 00:15:07.379
and that's new. That is a, you know, emotionally developed, critical thinking, mature adult, if you think of that, that kind of powerful influence. A lot of them are spending five, six hours on the day of day, on the phone. And this is the kind of pressure that's surrounding them. And it's not especially in the male world. It's not had a lot of attention until now, we know that female body pressure has been disgusting on you know, women for so long. And you know, even despite the fact you've had the body positivity movement for over 10 years, we've still got a long way to go. But there's so little conversation around masculine body pressure, even in schools, you know, as a teacher for 18 years, when you get that PSHE unit that's about body pressure, maybe 90% of it is focused on women, excuse me, and this is this assumption that men either don't care or there's no pressure on them. And yet what we're finding on the shop floor is that it's very rare when we're talking about our anxieties and insecurities, for every single lad not to say something about his physical appearance, whether it's his skin. It, or his height, or his weight, there's a huge amount of insecurity around it. I don't think we're having the healthy kind of dialog, but we should be about it,
00:15:08.220 --> 00:16:31.460
yeah, yeah. And it's, that's, that's heartbreaking, because, you know, there are enough pressures as it is, and we're not trying to extend the pain to boys. We actually weren't trying to reduce it for everybody. And it's interesting, because I saw that there were apps. In fact, Mike view has created an app to try and monetize, you know, the mewing thing. And there were two other apps I looked up. One was umax. I think it's umax, yeah, 3.9 1000 reviews. And that one, it says it's for over 18 year olds. And then there's another one called looks Max AI, which has 4000 reviews, and it's for 12 plus. And on the front page, it says, become a Chad. And then what it does is it you take a photo of your face, and it rates you on masculinity, cheekbones, jawline, eyes, hair, skin, and gives you tips on how to become more attractive. To be honest, when I looked at the hair one, I thought, that's I don't I don't disagree. You know, shampoo twice a week avoid parabens and sulfate conditioners. But you know what, what you're doing is you're just putting someone in that vulnerable position. They do. You remember when, when I was younger, at work, they had something called, Am I hot or not? Did you ever see that? Oh, yeah. And people, uploading faces of people they knew, or even themselves, and asking that question, and everybody was saying horrible things about them. Why would you do that? But our kids were just, you know, it's just another way of doing it, right?
00:16:32.000 --> 00:17:34.039
Of course it is. Yeah, body black. I said body pressure has been around. You know, we could go back to, if you look at the Roman and the Greek statues of men, it's pretty obvious that body representation of men has been focused on a certain kind of build. And I'm pretty sure fat shaming was going on, you know, in the Romans and Greek times. But I kind of touched on it earlier. Just look at, like, recent history. If I go back to the 1970s as a part of recent history, the kind of the archetype of masculine physical perfection. It was very lying and slim, muscular, but slim. So if you think about John Travolta, Mark Hamill, who played with Lucy Skywalker. They had that kind of slim but muscular kind of build. But then the 1980s came along, and that's an era that is known as hyper masculinity. So body representation completely changed. There. Your archetypes are Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Van Dam, Dolph luf, very little body fat, huge amount of muscle, very aggressive. And researchers often connect that to the very muscular brand of capitalism that exploded in the 1980s you know, form of capitalism, which was focused on growth, dominance, aggressive expansion.
00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:49.359
And the masculine body was kind of a representation of that, particularly in Western American societies. And then you go into the kind of the 90s and the naughties, and we have the appearance of the metrosexual. I don't remember that the Metro section, yes, of course. So the metrosexual, the classic archetype would be David Becker.
00:17:49.359 --> 00:18:26.539
And at that point, things like, you know, having an interest in fashion or using skincare products become socially acceptable. And in some in some quarters, that was hailed as an advancement in masculine evolution. You know, it's okay to be a to be into these things, but there's actually something far more insidious underneath it. It wasn't about us developing ourselves. It was about us becoming better at seducing women. It's about us adapting our game to become players. And if you look at, you know, the lads magazines at the time, you know, nuts and loaded and FHM. They were. They were kind of championing these techniques as a way to increase your body count, you know, increase the amount of women.
00:18:26.539 --> 00:18:29.960
That wasn't about empowering us.
00:18:26.539 --> 00:18:54.099
It was about more entrapping women, which is something that the pickup artists today, they're the evolution of that the pickup artist branch of the manosphere. And then, you know, you come to today, when you've got the looks maxing is the digital evolution of everything that went before it. So we've got mass consumption of online content from teens, and teens are more asking more kind of direct questions about how to achieve a particular physique or how to get rid of their acne.
00:18:51.160 --> 00:19:10.140
And they're actually through Lux Maxim. They're inventing criteria to classify attractiveness, almost trying to distill a formula, you know, with the cancel really looks maxing is the accumulation of what's been going on for a very long time before it fascinating.
00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:20.460
And when you are in groups with the boys, what, what are you hearing about? Looks, maxing. Are they positive? Are they net? You know, what do they say?
00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:24.200
I mean, no, boys are not one homogenous master.
00:19:24.259 --> 00:19:30.500
They're all saying different things. But first off, a lot of them are accessing the content.
00:19:27.319 --> 00:21:23.059
Secondly, they're not talking to adults because, like we said, we don't. There's a huge generation of God, I would not know about this if this wasn't my job. And I'll say that in our parental in our parental sports sessions, there's no judgment, like we're not supposed to know is that COVID language is meant to keep us out, and the algorithm doesn't target us with that kind of stuff. So, you know, it's hidden from us. So they are accessing it. They're confused about it. In some ways, they agree with it, and think, yes, it is important to be, you know, to look good, and which, on some level, I agree with. Know, exercise, personal hygiene, taking an interest in style. I mean, I think that they're quite healthy things, so long as they don't go to I am nothing unless I have these. I am worthless unless I have that's that's where it crosses the line for me. But I think there's a lot of confusion around that they're not critical thinkers. And this is one of my big issues with the school system at the moment, and this is an aim to teachers. It's not their fault, but schools are teaching a very content heavy curriculum, and I know that because I've only been out the classroom three years, it's a race just to get through to the exam. You can't slow down and focus on critical thinking, detecting bias sources of information. Why would Mike mu create an app to monetize his content. Is this something that he does he care about me? Does he want me to have defined? Does this even work? Or is this about him making they're not asking those kind of questions. They're accepting things on face value that are being presented to them online. And I think that's where parents and teachers can come in, you know, on these regular, low stakes, non judgmental conversations. I think it's really important for us to empathize, you know, tap into your insecurities when you were that age, or even now. I've got no problem telling the last time I've stood up in I've stood up in conferences and said this, that when I was around 13 years old, I used to go, oh, wedge the door shut, do a few press ups, take my top off and try and flex in front of the mirror. Yeah, I absolutely hated myself for what I saw in the mirror. I remember thought,
00:21:23.299 --> 00:21:27.259
oh, Likewise, likewise. You know how supposed to
00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:54.700
look like? Who's ever going to want you looking like that? My natural build. I'm slim, you know? I'm slight, I'm never people like me are never going to be on the front of you know of these magazines, when I see people who look like me in society, they're generally no archetypes of the nerd or the geek or the academic, you know, never the hero. And so I grew up with a lot of body shame, and when I shared that with the lads that algo first approach, you know, they're far more open, but coming back to me about some of their insecurities,
00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:59.079
I like that.
00:21:55.720 --> 00:22:47.920
And I think being honest about how we have been impacted in our lives by, you know? Because I don't think there's any teenager, you know, unless you won the genetic lottery, but even the ones who did, they will be have had their own insecurities, because we're just a mess when we're teenagers. So for sure, and I just like to just touch briefly on that, the whole INCEL culture, because this is like you were talking about your sexual market value, and how this ties into its kind of origins in cell culture, and how we can help steer our sons away from because you can sort of start off down there going, this looks really great. This looks really healthy. I really want to make the most of myself and then end up being lured into a way of thinking that isn't necessarily going to help them.
00:22:43.900 --> 00:22:49.299
So how does this connect with that in cell culture?
00:22:50.259 --> 00:23:36.140
Yeah, so in cells, often believe that looks maxing is the solution to their problems. You know, look sorry in cells and red pillars have a desire to want relationships and to want connections with women, but the fact that they are rejected, really is the rejection by women is symbolic of what they see as a rejection from society as a whole. You know, they don't control that, and that makes them very frustrated. But even within cell culture, there's so many different types of incels. You know, there are the moderate ones that I actually feel really sorry for, who are not dangerous, who are not stalking people and not saying nasty things online. They've just got no confidence. They've got no self esteem. They feel like they can't talk to a girl because they'll get laughed at, and they find a home within this INCEL community. But then you've got the more extreme ones that actually blame women. You'll say you shouldn't be a gatekeeper.
00:23:36.140 --> 00:23:49.359
You shouldn't be allowed to say no to me, I'm a man. This should be my right to have sex and relationships. So in cell culture is very broad and varied. It's not fair to say, you know, they all possess the same I follow a lot of them online. Some of them I have intense amount of sympathy for.
00:23:50.140 --> 00:25:26.299
They've fallen down these rabbit holes. They've been targeted algorithmically by certain content, and they've been they've been radicalized. I don't know why we don't use that word more now we use it around religious and political conversations, but really, it's just extreme ideology. It's being promoted to vulnerable people, isn't it? And I mean, this fits that perfect. So I mentioned earlier about academics. We always try and make sure our strategies are research based. And there is some really great work going on about in cell culture. And look, it's linked to lux max. So Jamila rosedal, who is the works of the Australian College of Applied Psychology, she said that when young people feel like they can't control their environment, they may turn to trends such as Lux maxing as something they can control. Now, when you think of the people we mentioned earlier and Dylan lather, they were clearly young men that felt out of control, they felt vulnerable, they felt rejected, and they were looking for something to cling to, to not only improve themselves, but give them some kind of sense of belonging, and the Lux maps and community. They helped create it, really, but that was what was there for them, and that's supported by Dr Caitlin rager, who's one of my favorite academics. She's amazing. She's the Director of Digital Humanities at University College London, and. She said that ultimately, what mansphere culture is offering young men is a way to articulate a fear of loss of control. So all the academics are saying the same things, saying these are frightened young men who feel rejected by society, who are clean, trying to look for some way in to what they see as this exclusive club that we've all developed. And they think maybe Lux maxing, maybe becoming more physically developed, more muscular, more handsome, is their way in and that they can control that.
00:25:28.099 --> 00:25:32.119
Wow. That is really painful to think about.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:39.319
That's painful, and it's interesting, because we have a negative bias as human beings.
00:25:34.700 --> 00:26:13.920
And Latham says that negative contact tent he posts attracts far more views and engagement than the positive stuff. So of course, he continues to insult, he view his viewers, and then he'll sell more products. And so I guess what we so if I'm a parent and I've got what could potentially be seen as a boy who doesn't fit this looks maxing perfection, you know, in in whatever way it is, and feels like he'd like to be like that, or he'd like to join that community where he feels like he wants more control. How do we how can we help our sons?
00:26:15.059 --> 00:27:07.259
First off, my first piece of advice is the same, no matter what we're talking about, pornography looks Maxim, whether it's regular, low stakes conversations that are very non judgmental. Don't put yourself under pressure to revert an attitude instantly. Either you know one conversation is not going to do it. This needs to be embedded regular. Find out who these influences are, and, you know, research them. Have a look at them. Check that if you check out their content, and then you you become less judgmental. So if you're talking about Dylan Ladens. Actually, I watched a couple of dill Ladens, and I like a lot of what he says, that's going to relax then, because they're not feeling attacked all of a sudden. But when he said this, how to feel about that, and also, I would embrace the positive elements of Lux Max. If your son wants to develop himself physically, take him down to the gym and get an age appropriate, safe workout for him, that might be a that might be an absolute game changer in his life. I see so many young lads in the gym who don't know what they're doing.
00:27:07.259 --> 00:27:35.720
They're afraid to ask. They're slinging massive weights around that are weights they're going to hurt themselves. And I always make a point of going over and saying, lads, you know, it's great that you're in the gym. I wish I started your age. I'm not an expert, but if you need some tips, or you want me to spot you, just to make try and make try and make them feel comfortable, and because we've all been that kid in the gym, you don't know what you're doing, everyone else seems to know. You don't know. Ask it's embarrassing. So don't demonize all of Lux maxing, embrace the healthy aspects of it and kind of support your son with them.
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:47.440
If you want something off, you want, if it's got dry skin, you know, go, go get help getting some moisturizer. I've got very drastic, but reaffirm where his value comes from. That's that.
00:27:44.019 --> 00:27:53.259
That is the cut off for me. This is not going to give you your value. You are a wonderful young man, you are kind, you're loyal.
00:27:49.900 --> 00:28:00.299
That's where your value comes from if you want these things, because, you know, I think I'll make you look better, great. But actually, these are the most important things for you. Do
00:28:01.859 --> 00:28:42.759
Yes, and also reminding them that there's, there's a, there's a whole industry that that is, is, it's, it has to push products and things in order to sell them, and it has to make you uncomfortable in order to drive those sales. So that discomfort is important to step back. I mean, there was one guy, I'll mention him in my podcast notes that I was watching where he said, I'm going to talk to you about all the looks maxing things you can do that have require you to buy nothing, right? And I think this is a really That's a lovely thing, because it's not about being driven to do things, you know, to line someone else's pockets.
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:48.880
It's about, you know, like sitting up straight and all those other things that can make a massive difference to the way you come across.
00:28:49.779 --> 00:29:16.680
That's where the critical thinking, Yes, can you separate the content that is targets and monetize you? Can you separate that? Because there's some great influence, that there's some wonderful people out there producing really great content, you know, some amazing influences out there, and we share some of them in our programs. But there's also, there are a lot of Grifters out there. There are a lot of people who see you as a simp that they can monetize because you're low and desperate, and you'll throw money at anything in order to, you know, up your self esteem.
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:32.539
And that's this critical thinking. That's the most important thing for me, and it's a skill that we're not teaching well enough. And that's where these regular low stakes conversations at all could come in. You know, where you challenge, I love that, Mike, challenge them without shaming them, or challenge them without humiliating, yes,
00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:53.440
just just, I love that. I mean, on that note, I think that's actually everything we need to be saying to our kids. It's about like constant low stakes conversations, getting your head around what it is that they're accessing, and helping them think critically about it. So just chucking in ideas, could you look at it this way? Is there a different way that we could see things I love that?
00:29:53.440 --> 00:30:09.900
Yes. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on. What I'll do is I'll put Mike's details in the podcast and. So if you want to contact Mike, you can find him there and and the whole point about highlighting these topics is is it's we're not trying to scare parents.
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:40.480
It's really to try and educate us about the cultural landscape our teens inhabit and to help us have more informed, positive discussions with our kids. So if you found this useful, give it five stars, and please share it right now with at least one person you know. All the other information links, I'll try and put in the podcast notes. If you want more, you can find it on my website, which is www dot teenagers untangled.com and you can email me with ideas and questions at teenagers untangled@gmail.com That's it for now. Have a great week. You
