Transcript
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Music, hello and welcome to teenagers.
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Untangled the award winning audio hug for parents going through the teen years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Hi there. I'm
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Susie Asli, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist, musician and mother of three teenagers. Two of them are twins. Susie,
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did you know about boundaries when you were younger? Was it a word that No, no, absolutely not. I mean, come on, make it in geography. Did you see the viral clip that sparked a frenzy of debate the other day? It was Salma Hayek appeared to try and steer Nicole Kidman, who had her back to the camera, and she placed the hand on her side, and Kidman pushed her away and pointed at the actor, before telling her, don't touch me. Oh, no, I did not. And it's so funny, because there's been all this kind of chatter about it, but I think, well, that's okay, yeah, you know. And I've seen, I've seen on social media, this mum teaching how you can teach young girls in particular by stroking them over their head or down their body.
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And the girl, you know, does a thumbs up, and then when you stroke her in the wrong position, she pushes the hand away and she they said, You need to practice this practicing kind of going, you know, this isn't okay, yeah, those are physical boundaries. But it's interesting, isn't it? No, I haven't seen that clip, and I remember a boss of mine. No, he wasn't a boss. He was my he was a colleague coming up behind me and massaging my back and pressing himself against me, sitting there, thinking, I don't know, is this okay?
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I think thankfully we hopefully, we've moved on.
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We've moved on.
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Oh no, there were lawyers involved in all these companies, yeah, but yes. So we've learned that boundaries are a lot more than physical touch, absolutely, and part of that is to do with the development of psychology.
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And you know, my daughters have been learning to set stronger boundaries. I think often girls grow up taking in the implicit sort of remarks about boundaries and feeling that they're not as allowed to set them as I say boys are. But again, you know, maybe I'm big sexist. I don't know. Anyway, let's do our nuggets first. Yes,
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so my Nuggets are probably, well, they're actually related to boundaries without really meaning to be. And I've just noticed that it's a mindfulness thing, really, which is appropriate thing as I teach them. It's when I haven't practiced as much as maybe I normally do, or would like to, for various, you know, reasons.
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I notice that my mind is scanning and wanting to be worrying about stuff. Oh, yes.
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So it's like, oh, it's got used to worrying about something.
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Then that that event passes, because they always do. And then it's like, oh, what can I What can I worry about now? Because I need that, I need that to and I notice it's doing that the last couple of days, like trying to find stuff to because it's familiar. It feels, it feel it doesn't feel nice, but it feels familiar, which is where we like to be. So, yeah, I'm noticing that about my kids. So Oh, and suddenly things that you know maybe would otherwise not be a worry. And my mind is building up into a big deal, which is super unhelpful. So noticing that and going, Whoa, hang on a minute. I need to do bit more practice.
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Yeah, and it's okay to be, you know, happy,
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yes, yeah, it's okay, it's okay. Or to just log it and notice it, but not to spiral with it? Yes.
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And I think we when the kids are quite small, we're hyper vigilant a lot of the time. And as they get older, it's hard to sort of just decompress it. But yeah, you know what? It's not such a big thing. Sometimes it isn't, sometimes it is, but we need to take the good yeah, you know it's like when they say when the baby's sleeping, sleep. So when you have the chance, now, you've absolutely just had that grace.
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And I think for me, there have been a couple of actual worries, and then when they pass, it's like, oh, what now I need that fix again. Yes.
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So, yeah, right. So
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mine is, it's a difficult one, but it's about using curiosity and what we know from research, from doing this podcast, for example, and in terms of reframing situations.
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So I keep saying, I think our biggest tool which should always be curiosity and not jumping to conclusions. And it came to mind when I was reading an article by Lucy Fraser, the former culture secretary in the UK, and this was in the times, and the article she in it, she made some great, compelling points about changing our education system so that it's more capable of coping with kids that aren't straight down the line, who may be neurodivergent, and she said, talking about her daughter and her ADHD diagnosis, she said it all became clearer to me in lockdown, I walked into my daughter's bedroom during the school day, she had signed on to her lesson. Her laptop was open, her teacher's voice was booming through the speakers on Zoom, pencils, books, worksheets were strewn across her floor, but my daughter was standing totally oblivious, trying on bikinis in the corner of her bedroom, and suddenly I got it. And I don't know anything about the full diagnosis and how she led up to this, but I just when I read things like that in mainstream media, I think it's really we're creating. Narrative, aren't we?
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So parents will read that and go, Oh, yeah. What does that say about, you know, the situation I find myself in, and I think COVID was a really particularly difficult time because kids were there was a blurring of boundaries. Because when I think back to what I did in my bedroom as a teenage, normal to me, yeah, I tried on clothes in the mirror and played my own music, and it was just I was in my own world. So expecting kids to go online and work, it's very, very difficult
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ask, and it's oversimplified, isn't it? And I'm sure she's this story. No, no, I'm
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sure I'm not questioning her story. But what I'm saying is, I'm saying, when we see things like this, it's worth stopping and thinking, Oh, I wonder what else we could think about this scenario. So there's also a book called 10 to 25 the science of motivating young people. And it's the most amazing book. And it says, He says, When kids become teenagers, when they go through puberty, social status becomes absolutely vital. It's the most it's their kind of guiding star, their North Star. And so when you think about that, the status does no longer come predominantly from teachers and from parents, which it used to it switches to their peer groups. So put a kid in a room on their own when no one's watching and they're supposed to be in a classroom, and it's really you talk to any teacher, they say it's really hard to motivate kids, even when they're in the classroom, if they're in their bedrooms at home, yeah, nigh on impossible. Of course, these poor kids suffered. And, you know, we did the bikini body episode, and we know that the peer pressure on young girls, if they're on social media, which this girl may well have been because she was online, which happened to a lot of our kids. I know that happened to my kids during lockdown, the pressure to look good and to be have a bikini, they should be like, Oh, I wonder if I've got a bikini body, right? Just look at it and go. I wonder whether she's thinking, have I got a bikini body? Because that would be put her in a higher status group amongst her friends. But the other thing I'd be thinking is, I hope she's not been groomed like I hope not. And I'm not saying that anything bad about the situation, but I'm saying looking into a situation, there are lots and lots of things we can think through and try and go through with our child. So I would have wanted to scaffold her, pull her out of the bedroom, give her a place where she can work. Maybe co I've read that kids who struggle to concentrate, it can be really good to have a warm body next to them who's also working. Not always possible. Yes, exactly, but I'm just, you know, so I guess then it appears, yeah, yeah. All I'm trying to do is I'm trying to say, rather than jumping to because, because it may be that parents would read that, and they don't have a child who has these issues, but might read that and say, Oh, maybe my kids got ADHD too, right? That's what I'm trying to say, is that maybe narrative can be very confusing. Yeah? So absolutely, yeah, just curiosity is our best tool awareness, right? What are boundaries? In a nutshell? Dr Tara Quinn Cirillo says it's knowing how to separate your feelings or stuff from someone else's nice and easy. Yeah? How do we know what our boundaries are?
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That's the most important part.
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I think it is.
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And there's a therapist called Sally Baker, who I've seen on Twitter, and I have actually, when someone messaged me in a crisis, sent her to Sally Baker, and Sally Baker did a great job with her, and she said, we have to rely on our own internal alert systems to determine, yes, when our boundaries are being infringed. So pay attention to our instincts and don't and I suppose the flip side is trying to be careful not to tell our kids to switch off their instincts.
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Yeah, and it's our friend, it's awareness, it's and we're so much in our heads and not in our we're not in our bodies that we find it quite challenging to actually notice when our boundaries are being crossed,
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and often it's our bodies that will respond before our minds catch up. Sally Baker said if you come away from a meeting, for example, or a telephone conversation with friends or family and you feel depleted or anxious or wound up, there's probably some boundaries being breached. Yeah,
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I call it an Ick.
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Yeah, you have a little ick, and you're not quite sure what it is. And it can be for loads of different reasons. It could just be that you didn't sleep very well. It can be lot, but it's a signal, isn't it? Oh, what's that ick and unpacking that it's
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really important, and also this sort of emotional and physical exhaustion. If you're feeling that, and you're thinking where, like, I'm getting enough sleep.
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I don't really it could be that you're having to constantly try and be something that you're not and you're and you're being forced into a position to do that. So boundaries can be thought of as stop signs in your life, and where you put your stop signs and what you consider crossing the line is going to vary, and it can vary depending on beliefs, values, cultural customs, family traditions, which is why it's so complicated, yeah, and it's a social construct in
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a way. It is, it is, and it changes from business yes, and context to context,
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yes, which is confusing, but we'll get onto that. So there are types of boundaries, so let's say there's physical ones. So that's your personal space, privacy, you know, affection and. Holding you know, some people don't like holding hands, for example, behavioral boundaries, like making rules at home, over phones at the dinner table.
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That's a behavioral boundary, sexual boundaries, intellectual boundaries, so those to do with your thoughts and your beliefs.
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You know when somebody somebody might say something fundamentally you oppose emotional and financial, yeah, financial and financial,
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either way people treat us and speak to us. I guess
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that's emotional. That's emotional, yeah, yeah, sharing feelings about yourself and with the financial. For example. You know, if you're not somebody who likes to spend an awful lot of money on things, but you're with somebody, with somebody in a partnership who yes, does that can be a very difficult thing to manage, but really important to know. Very important, yes. And it's only just the late 20th century. Self Help movement popularized the concept of personal boundaries, and it's kind of wonderful because it's grown up and we're a lot more aware of them, but we still find it hard. We
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say, find it super hard, especially with our teenagers,
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yes. And we talk about it all the time. My boundaries, yeah, oh, you
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cross my boundary, boundary, boundary, and nobody's really clear what that means.
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So so stop for a second if you're listening to this, and think, how are the boundaries in my home? Are they clear so each member of the family would be able to be assertive and communicate their needs, develop their own interests, and they can be flexible and adaptive. That's a kind of clear boundaries. Rigid boundaries are where they're closed and inflexible. So somebody has put in place boundaries, which mean that everybody's got to do things a certain way, yeah, which makes it very challenging for family members to communicate if they feel differently about
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it, and it usually comes from a place of control and fear and panic that people are going to be all over the shop. So I better put some rules in place, yes,
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and then a lack of boundaries where, you know, they're not really clear, fuzzy, loose boundaries. And this can be very difficult for family members, because you might think, Oh, well, you know, nobody likes boundaries, but they do. They feel safe with boundaries. And when families don't have boundaries, they can become enmeshed and have co dependency. And it can be very difficult for someone growing up in that environment to be able to perform an independent personality, yeah, that's really
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important. I mean, co dependency is very problematic, and that is when there are no boundaries or blurred boundaries, and that that becomes a pattern for life, and that's that's really important to try and be aware of, and not if it's happening to break out of, because it's really unhelpful for all
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parts. Yes, and I remember someone I knew, his brother and his dad, his brother died, and his father had divorced his mother and disappeared, and the mother turned to him when the brother died, and said, it's just us now, yeah, and that was that set up the Turner of a relationship.
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And throughout his entire adult life, he never really formed proper relationships, because he just felt so enmeshed with his mother. It's very
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hard. It's very hard. And actually a lot of adult couples are co dependent, yeah, and it's, it's, yeah,
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it's problematic. When we talk about boundaries, we can also talk about sort of a lack of containment. So when a parent models contain behavior, the child will typically follow their example. But if you don't correct a child's dysfunctional behavior. It it can cause a lack of containment. So what am I talking about? So for example, standing too close to other people and being in their face, touching people in their things, saying whatever comes to mind.
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You know, having no filter.
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These are normal things, normal for young kids, but as we grow up, we start to understand other people's boundaries and we need to support our kids in learning these skills by, you know, and I have more than one kid who would sort of bump into when they were walking along, and you just have to say, oh, have you noticed you're bumping into me? Can you just walk a bit further away?
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And you need to notice that, because other people might find it difficult too. So it's just.
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And I remember, for some reason, I used to just sort of Pat people like it, like it was a slap, but it was. And my first boyfriend said, if you notice what you like, I don't like it.
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Don't hit me. And I say, we're not hitting you. It's just, and he'd say, Well, I don't like it.
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And I thought, oh, okay, no one said anything, but that's great, yeah. And so we need to, if nobody actually gives you those things you don't know, and that's
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the important thing, isn't it? It's a negotiation, I think, when it's in the family, and that's we are talking about, families, teenagers and parenting, it's a negotiation.
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And we have to model that there is space to negotiate. And so we need psychological safety to do that, because it's not enough to just give a whole load of rules and go, right. You have to do that because you're, I'm your parents, and that's, that's the end. It has to be a negotiation.
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But if you're not willing to listen to the reply where somebody goes, actually, I don't like that, or I like this and and if you dismiss it, then that's not a negotiation, and that's not a psychologically safe place. It has to, it has to be a conversation. And yeah, and maybe you you have to compromise on your own, but to model the discussion, I remember from when my kids were very little and and one of my kids would, it's a silly example. I may have said it before, but he found it very difficult to sit still. And he would just get up from the dinner table, and he'd see a ball in the corner of the room, and he was like, He's possessed.
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And you'd go over and start kicking it. We'd all be like, hello, what you doing? Oh, I didn't realize. And so we had a we had a meeting around it. We had a discussion. And that is actually boundaries looking back on it. Yeah, and everybody in the family had a had an opinion on it. I didn't actually mind, but his sister was found it very annoying, and we came to the conclusion, anyway, long story short, that he could get up. It was fine, but he had to stay near the table. And that was our boundaries. And actually, if you model that you don't have to agree and that there is room for discussion, then then it's safe, isn't it? And
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I want to stress that. I mean, what you've just illustrated there is coming from a point that we covered in a previous episode, which is, it teaches empathy. Yes, so when you are prepared to invite people to talk about something that's annoying them, or that's then, then what it does is it makes a person who's doing the a bit annoying thing. Have to think about how other people might be impacted by their behavior and then be more empathetic. Yeah, and it doesn't mean that they've got to, you know, like you said, you came up with something that everybody agreed to, which is amazing.
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Yeah, it's really good, but it's
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also, it's also not taking it personally, not taking exact thanks, because I think so quick to take offense. Like, one example last night we I made this. I thought it was really delicious dinner. So did. My daughter made this vegetable soup, and we had these bread from tons and nuts and chickpeas, and it was really yummy. And my son was like, yeah, he really liked it. But before he went to bed, he texted him he'd obviously got hungry, and he went, Mum, can we? Can we, like, have proper dinners, pasta and stuff. And I just thought was hilarious, yeah, I get it, and I was laughing, but I could also have taken that, taken offense, and gone. Oh, well, that is a proper dinner, yes? So it's like, that's boundary I need. I actually need a proper denim, yeah, because
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my organs people can also be overly contained, so rarely approaching others for physical contact, not expressing wants or needs, because their fear that they won't be met. Intense focus on not offending others. Yes, this is one I see a lot, a lot with girls and trying to act perfect because they're afraid they might be abandoned. Yes, you know this is and we live. We have a really safe family, but I've still seen this, and I just think it's, it's, it's a wider problem in society. And you get some people who who just naturally very good at asserting their boundaries, almost too good, and other people who are naturally very, very careful of other people's boundaries to the point where they not quite sure where, know where it lies.
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And it's but it's often refreshing, isn't it? It's so refreshing when somebody has good boundaries and they do it calmly and clearly, rather than like in your face with it, because that's just a bit aggressive. It's like, Oh, I know. I know who you are, I know what you stand for. I can just be. It's really refreshing. But we, I think our home is our practice pad for completely as it is for many areas, but it's a practice pad, and if you can practice boundaries at home, then it puts you in really good stead to be able to do it in your relationships and in wherever you are in the world.
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Yeah, and I think that my family, we had a stuff it family, they call it, where you weren't allowed to say anything, no at all. And I would look at things that were going on, and I think nobody is telling, for example, my sister, that that is not acceptable, and that's not helpful for her, because nobody outside the family is going to help her more than the family would, which means no one's ever going to tell her, and she's going to walk through life feeling confused about you know, why is this not okay?
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And it goes the other way as well. Yeah, we need, we need feedback. It's healthy. It's useful feedback, isn't it? Yeah.
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And so look few examples of people exhibiting healthy boundaries, being able to say no, being able to clearly communicate your needs, honoring respecting their own needs, and respecting other people's values, beliefs and opinions, and setting healthy boundaries on social media, because, let's not forget social media, because this has now become an extension of our lives. And I think there's an awful lot of in real life, boundaries that get completely trampled on. Where people go on social media, and this is a conversation I see so many people, big they scream, you know, the warriors, the keyboard warriors, they get online and they behave in the most appalling way. And we need to raise our kids being aware that that is also a social environment and that those boundaries exist there too.
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Yeah,
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just what's unacceptable to you, and then hold that line, yeah. So
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let's think about unhealthy. Boundaries, and it can lead to dysfunctional relationships. So if you can't say no, if you can't accept it from other people, and if you're coercive or manipulative, or you know, people are coercive or manipulative, that's actually abuse. Yeah, absolutely. So I I'll put a contact at the bottom of the episode, just in case anybody's in that position and they think, Oh, this feels like I feel like I'm being abused, but I don't know how to deal with it. There are helplines that you can call, yeah,
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and that's why it's so important that we teach our kids to that a no is that we respect a no, but we don't have to accept every no like you can disagree with it, but that they are, they're able to say no, and we might even disagree with it, so that they practice that Yes.
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And I just, you know, it's a really good point.
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And I just, you know, what I'm thinking about it. I want to talk about sexual boundaries, because one of the big problems is the the point where, like, Where does consent start and stop? And there are a lot of people who think that consent starts with, you know, just they say, Oh, do you like being choked? And the person says, Well, I'm open to it. And then they, when they see them, they think that that's this consent they need. And I'm just bringing that up because it's actually being raised a lot in the press at the moment, and it's one of those situations where there should be continuous, active consent, not just one off.
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Yeah, it's a negotiation. A boundary is a negotiation. And yes, flexible one. And just because you said something one day, then you know consistency is also useful, yes, but there has to be flexibility,
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yes, and the No, when the no comes, it needs to be respected. Yeah, absolutely. So you know, what's really interesting is when we don't understand boundaries, there are things that can happen which we may not be aware of, like burnout, because when we don't say, I can only do this and I only want to do this, and then we continue doing things.
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And we parents are guilty of this a lot, where we'll we're trying to be superhuman. We're trying to be the best parents we can be, and we will try to do everything, and because we don't put boundaries in, then we end up burnt out. Yeah?
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And I think it gets complicated when we're parenting, and I think especially, I mean, I've definitely experienced many times as a single parent where I am consciously going over my boundaries, yeah, yeah. And I, I'm like, Well, I actually don't have a choice in this. I mean, there's always, there's always a choice at the end of the day, isn't there? But no, I feel that I have Yes, like, who else is going to do it? Like, I have to do this, and I'm doing it with full awareness that I am absolutely going over most of my boundaries, of, you know, exhaustion, or whatever the situation is. So it's, it's also, it's, it's complicated.
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But I think also, if you can say, if you can actually just be conscious, that there are boundaries and that's been overstepped, that at least your your inner emotional needs have been recognized. You go, Okay, I have overstepped. And this is uncomfortable, and there's a reason it's uncomfortable and it's not, it's not me being a terrible person for feeling this terrible experience, no. And that the burnout is real, yeah.
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And then, but with that awareness comes the choice to go, Okay, I'm at this period.
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It's too much, but I'm going to recover.
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Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And sometimes the boundaries have to be with ourselves, like setting bedtime, yes,
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oh, yeah.
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But I've got better at that, and my life has been better. And when I step out of that frame, I really notice everything going off kilter. So I am because I become more consistent, I now notice, yeah, yes, when I'm not getting enough sleep, and then I'm I'm better at being a parent, because I can also say to them, like, I've gone to bed, and have you noticed that you're grouchy because you were Yeah, and
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when we're not grouchy, we bet parent, better, exactly. Weird, amazing, isn't it?
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And increased anxiety. So if you, if you're not certain about what is acceptable, that can lead to anxiety, right? So we don't really think about this, like, if you're worrying about inadvertently overstepping or being taken advantage of, that can be, you know, it's like a computer system running underneath, and you don't hear it, but that disc is going
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and that is that the root of boundaries is when, if we don't know what we think and what we believe, when we are in doubt, which, of course, we are humans and we're parenting teenagers, of course we're going to be doubting. But if we don't, if when, when we are doubting, we need to stop, and that is our responsibility to find out.
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Firstly, what do I what do I think about it? Because I know from my experience, when I've been wooly and vague with my boundaries with my kids, it's because I haven't really sat down. And what do I actually think about this? Is this a yes?
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Is this a no? I don't know. So I just sort of wade through it, wing it a bit, and hope it will go away. And then I'm giving out very confusing messaging, and it usually goes pear shaped. Yeah, you have to. We have to. And sometimes it's, it's uncomfortable, it's stuff that you don't want to face, or you have to, you have to make decisions about that that are uncomfortable. But if we don't know what we believe or what our values are, all of that stuff first, then it's really.
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Challenging to set boundaries.
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It's
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really challenging. And I remember my father had completely inconsistent boundaries, completely you know, I had no idea from one day to the next what would make him explode and it would, it was incredibly stressful, because I used to watch him really carefully to see what he was doing, to try and mimic it, so that I wouldn't upset him. And then he'd get cross. And I think, what I like?
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What was that? And that then you had you in a state of hyper vigilance all the time. So you need clear. That's around reading
00:25:26.539 --> 00:25:33.740
point. Because then if we don't, if we're not clear, then that's when our kids develop these kind of over developed antennas. And that's that's a lot for them. Yes,
00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:41.319
absolutely. And so that can cause conflict in relationships and resentment.
00:25:36.680 --> 00:26:11.279
And also, what's an interesting one that I read about was this sort of element of jealousy and rivalry. Again, if we're not clear about what the rules and boundaries are in the house, siblings can feel like they're not they're not sure, and so they can compete with each other. There can be jealousy and rivalry, because they see that one gets one treatment and the other, and they think that's something about them, but it's just that we're being inconsistent. Yeah, we all guilty of it. Yeah, absolutely, to be honest. Or maybe that particular kid has a different need at that particular time, but we need to verbalize that.
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.980
We need to verbalize it exactly.
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:20.299
And it can also cause a difficulty in trusting, because if you don't, if it's inconsistent in the behavior.
00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:41.559
And for example, let's say your kid calls you and they've got some awful thing that's been happening, but it's awful to them, and they want to offload onto you, and then you go and tell other people, then all that they feel that they can't trust you, and there's not a safe space, or if you sort of de mini you minimize it, it can. They need to know that they you know, like, where is the boundary, and who can I trust? Yeah.
00:26:41.739 --> 00:26:50.798
And it's very difficult when we disagree on their boundaries. Like, I had that experience from summer, yes, like, I thought it was, I thought it was a crazy boundary.
00:26:51.519 --> 00:27:13.858
I was like, and it was affecting, you know, what we were trying to do, and that's, that's really hard to negotiate, yeah, and to kind of because, because respect is a massive part of boundary setting. If you if you diss someone's boundaries, you don't have to agree, but there needs to be a conversation about it, because then shame can come in and they think, Oh, my boundaries shameful somehow, and then they don't want to set it again, or it gets it gets complicated.
00:27:13.858 --> 00:27:17.878
It's very complicated. There has to be respect in it, but you don't have to agree. And
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:42.160
I do think we have to be mindful that it's really important for our kids that we teach them how to navigate the world and understanding that boundaries exist, but that their what they want isn't always going to be upheld, and it's really important that they're able to live in a world where they won't always get what they want and they won't always have their boundaries respected, and they can't keep getting up, you know, we can't keep getting upset.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:42.640
Yeah, maybe
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:50.740
it's because when we when our boundaries are crossed, if we haven't sort of set them properly, I have much practice with it, because I didn't have any practice with it growing up.
00:27:50.740 --> 00:28:11.519
We feel that somebody doesn't like us, or, yeah, if they don't agree with us, and when I say we don't have to agree, we have to negotiate, because we have to live together and work it out, but we can, we can we can be very flexible with that. I agree, but it's nothing to do with whether you know, we're accepting the person as a whole, which I think can get get complicated. Yeah,
00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:38.960
yeah. And I want to also highlight how beneficial allowing our kids to talk about their boundaries and set them in the home can be in terms of navigating peer pressure, yes, because we expect our kids to go out and behave in a certain way. But if you don't teach them, if they can't stand up against you or have conversations with you and say, I don't want to do that, how do we honestly expect them to do that with their peers who are even more important to them?
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:39.140
It's
00:28:39.140 --> 00:28:41.500
like that funny cartoon. I've just love it.
00:28:41.500 --> 00:29:24.140
It's, I can't remember exactly, but it's, it's this woman talking to her daughter. It could be son, but it's a daughter in the cutting saying, oh, you know, I want you to, I want you to go out in the world and be really boundaries and grab what you want and do all these amazing, exciting things and be wild and passionate about everything. But while you're at home, I want you to be compliant and do as I tell you, then be quiet. We're not going to get much practice then. Doesn't work like that, doesn't we have to practice in the small bits, don't we? We have to go, you know, practice in the in the in the small, doable non it doesn't work things that don't matter, and they have to be allowed to set those boundaries and be accepted, and we negotiate those, otherwise they can't do the big ones, no.
00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:57.279
And so let's talk about how to set healthy boundaries. I'm going to put all of this in the podcast notes, the kind of key, key things. So number one, reflect on how you feel. I mean, the first step is always spending time exploring, you know, like, because you've noticed something makes you uncomfortable. Why? Because you can't articulate it to someone else, if you haven't figured out yourself, practice self love. So the whole thing is, it's very hard to think you're worthy of a boundary if you don't really like yourself, yes, and very often, the lack of boundary setting comes from a sense of, I'm not that important. Yeah, yeah, I
00:29:57.279 --> 00:29:58.839
don't matter.
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:05.220
Absolutely, I think that's really important. Important, and if we can't do self love, because that might be a bit of a stretch to start with self tolerance or self
00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:21.920
acceptance. So and setting a goal. So if you're going to set a boundary, just think, well, what? What do I want to happen if you're going to have a comment, because it's helpful to have a conversation with someone else to have some idea beforehand. Yes, what are we looking for here? What
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:23.779
are your non negotiables? Yes, exactly.
00:30:23.779 --> 00:30:39.680
And start small. So pick a time when you're relaxed and you and the other person might be receptive to the conversation and remain cool and calm. It needs to be that you can stay cool and calm, because if the other person reacts, you can't control that.
00:30:35.779 --> 00:30:42.460
It's not your fault. It's not your job. You know, obviously present it in a polite way.
00:30:42.460 --> 00:30:47.200
Don't be rude, but you can control your own response. Yeah,
00:30:47.200 --> 00:31:05.400
absolutely. I don't know how many times I've had conversations with my kids over the years. You know, I'm 100% happy with you being angry with me. That's totally fine. I don't mind that at all. However, I will not have you doing that. So I will not have that behavior. I will not have you saying those words, those particular words, because that's unacceptable.
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:09.599
Yeah, and you can split it all up, but you have to do it from a calm space, yes, and that's
00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:34.220
and we parents, we just need to ground ourselves. Yeah, it's hard, but and just be clear. So one of the great tips is just don't use the you, did you. You are to use the I statements, because that makes it much more clear that it's about how you are, not your accusing them. So whenever we use someone, it can feel very confrontational. And practice.
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:37.579
If you think it's going to make you nervous, try writing it out.
00:31:37.819 --> 00:32:00.039
What are you going to say beforehand? Have a practice in the mirror, talk to somebody else about it, and just try and keep it simple. Don't, don't do seven boundaries, this, this, this, and this, you know, okay, let's try one. What's the thing that's bothering you most at the moment? Let's have a conversation about that, see how they respond. And let's just pick off one that really matters to me, and then we'll move on
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:21.019
from that. And also, I think really importantly, is some often we, and I say we sai in the past of you know, you set a boundary, don't you, and it's quite stressful, and when you're first learning how to do it, or I'm going to do this boundary, no, no, you do it, and then you think that that's the end, and you'll never have to say again.
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:29.539
The hard bit is maybe it's not received, and you have to do it again, and you have to enforce the bound. Yes, I think that's maybe even the hardest part, because you just hope that they'll just take it on board
00:32:29.539 --> 00:32:31.640
immediately.
00:32:29.539 --> 00:32:34.400
Yes, and that's you can read all about that in the consequences.
00:32:31.640 --> 00:33:06.180
We've got an entire episode on consequences, and I wrote a blog after that because I was so interested in it. Just on, you know, what's going on? How do you set consequences that are actually healthy and work? And it's about the relationship you have with the person, and encouraging the dialog and being consistent. So you can't set a concept if you're saying, This is my boundary. And then, you know, first of all, you may not be clear, but you need to be clear, and then you need to be consistent and say, yeah, that we talked about this before.
00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:42.700
This really matters to me. And then if you need some kind of consequence, you can have that in place, but it's better if you talk about it before. So if you say to your kid, so let's say you allow your kid to go out late at night, and then when they come, they roll in, you know, at one in the morning, and you've been up worrying about it, but you didn't tell them that that was a problem. They're within their rights to think, well, hang on a second. We didn't have this conversation. I mean, why is that a problem for you? You seem to think it was all right, okay. You can't suddenly move the dial. You need to actually say, Oh, actually, I realized that that really does matter to me. We need to sit down and talk about it. And by the way, these will be the consequences. What do you think about them? Because
00:33:42.700 --> 00:33:48.579
sometimes we don't realize what our boundaries are until they've been crossed.
00:33:44.980 --> 00:33:51.220
Yeah, exactly. Oh, actually, do you know what? That's not okay.
00:33:48.579 --> 00:33:51.640
And next time I'm going to do this, yeah,
00:33:51.640 --> 00:34:02.519
yes. And coming back to what I said about here are the boundary, the consequences. Actually, I find it much more helpful to say, if this was someone else's child, what would you say should be the consequences, yeah. A
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:19.980
good way of knowing when our boundaries are crossed is the signal of anger. Yeah, frustration that I mean anger is, is a signal, as all our emotions are and frustration and anger, one of this, one of the, one of the things it's signaling is that somebody or has crossed our boundaries, or we've crossed our own boundaries, yeah,
00:34:20.159 --> 00:35:07.260
and finally, recognizing boundaries of others. So if you're concerned that maybe you're crossing someone else's boundaries, because quite often, there are a lot of people who feel uncomfortable telling you like you're doing something that's annoying and upsetting them, but they're just not saying it, ask, yeah, because it's actually really respectfully to say it is, you know, am I bothering you about something? And I know that it can feel again, awkward, but be okay about because what you're doing is you're providing them what you say, you might have a boundary there, I don't know. And look, here's your common sense. If you know your partner doesn't like sharing things on social media and you keep putting photos up of you, you know in these smoochy things, they may. Be finding that really awkward, but you're not actually talking about it.
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:20.360
So ask, just ask, and just remember that if you keep violating boundaries, if they say, well, actually, I don't like that. I don't like being on social media, I don't and then you continue to do it, you're going to end up with resentment, and people can withdraw. Yeah,
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:35.300
they do. They do. I mean, boundaries are really important, but finding out what our own boundaries are is so key, and not taking other people's boundaries personally, because we don't always know why people have set boundaries. It could be million reasons for it, but respect is a huge part,
00:35:35.300 --> 00:35:57.940
and I think it's really important in our relationships. If we if someone's wanting to convey something to you, and you're not prepared to listen. You You shout back, or you say, no, no, this is where my boundary is, and you're not prepared to discuss it. You'll find that they'll just say, Well, it's, I mean, I've heard this from someone. It's like talking to an answering machine, yeah. And, you know, they just withdraw, and you won't see it happen, yeah, until they've gone,
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:28.699
yeah. And I think sometimes we, you know, people put boundaries in a quite an aggressive way, and that's kind of a defense, or it's a control thing for whatever reason. There are lots of reasons for doing that that maybe need looking at, but that's not really boundary setting, because there does need to be some sort of recognition that's just kind of rule enforcement and control. And it can be abusive. It's if it's that sort of relationship, but we yeah, we don't have to, yeah, that's that's not the same thing. A boundary in a family is something that's negotiated
00:36:28.699 --> 00:37:00.179
Exactly, and that's it. We've reached the boundary of this episode. Very good. Thank you so much for listening. I'll put references and tips in the podcast notes if you want to have a go at setting boundaries for someone but you find it hard to articulate yourself. You could always send this to them and listen together and use it as a prompt to have that discussion you never knew it might help. Don't forget to hit the Follow button and give us a review. Go on. You know you want to if you think I've crossed someone's boundary there, maybe they're at home going, No, I don't want. I don't have. Dare you assume so many boundary jokes. This
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:01.260
is very good. I've got any
00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:09.719
more. You can reach me at teenagers untangled@gmail.com reach Susie at www,
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:11.699
dot, a mindful hyphen life.co.uk,
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:49.659
fantastic. And my website is www, dot teenagers untangled.com where you can use the episode search button to put in keywords and search for previous episodes, or read my irregular blog and sign up for my very irregular newsletter, and it's because you have boundaries. I have boundaries. I My family comes. I've actually had this on a because I get so many messages from people saying, Can I be on your podcast? And I actually had a kind of out of office note going so the most important people to me and my family, and then my listeners, and then you. If I haven't responded, I'm very sorry. Someone else has come higher up in the rank. I
00:37:49.659 --> 00:37:51.460
like it. It's very honest. It's dishonest.
00:37:52.780 --> 00:38:01.619
Anyway, reply, then it's my boundary. It says what it says, yeah, thanks for listening. Have a great week.
00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:02.639
Bye, bye, Bye, Bye, now.
