Transcript
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Music, hello and welcome to teenagers.
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Untangled, the award winning audio hug for parents going through the teen years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters.
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Hi there. I'm Susie Asli, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist, musician and mother of three teenagers. Two of them are twins. Welcome
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back, Susie.
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Thank you. It's lovely to have you in the studio. It feels like ages. It
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does feel like ages.
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Summer parenting, yeah, summer got extended,
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which was very nice.
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Now, today I've lifted a question from the private Facebook group, which I've just got to admit again, I'm not very good at monitoring it, but it's there. Is there? It was a brilliant topic to discuss with you. Suzy, it's an anonymous listener who asked, Do you think all teens should go to therapy? There's more to it, but I'll give you the rest of it in a moment. But first, I wanted to address an email that you received from a listener who questioned the need for boys to have male role models. And this was after the episode talking about boys underperforming, right? Andre has written a long email questioning our use of male and female to talk about roles. Now, Andre started it's very, very positive, Yeah, lovely. Put it into context. You know, he's very, very encouraging, yeah, he really felt uncomfortable about this.
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He said, I really, really, really would have hoped for an approach from your end that would not state there must be more male teachers. No, there must be more teachers and there must be better teachers. There is nothing wrong with 80% of the teachers being female. After all, nature does tell us that the female gender has a more caring and my nourishing touch than the male one. So a school is in your face, so it's not really, indeed, a great environment for this kind of care. And he goes on to explain that his choice of role models wasn't based on gender. He said what I was always looking out for was a respectful person and teacher that can engage my mind in ways that interest me. I don't think it mattered if it was a man or a woman. Nor should gender really matter to look for role models.
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It's, I mean, and backing up the first part of his email was really beautiful, very complimentary, but yeah, it's, it's almost like it's two different things, isn't it? When we're looking at, you know, who we want our kids to look up to.
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It's the qualities of a person, a human being. And then there's the gender aspect. And they don't have to be in competition with each other,
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do they? No, no, and Andre I am so sorry you felt upset about this, but I think I one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this is because I think whenever parents get together, and I noticed this when my kids were younger. You can get six parents in a room and six different viewpoints and those and I think it's become more so because we don't have such a sort of rigid, structured society, and there are quite a lot of diverging viewpoints, and societal norms are changing quite rapidly. You know, the conversation is changing rapidly. Who knows who's kept up. I mean, I mentioned to you earlier that I used to work in TV, and at the end of the day, the editor would give feedback on what people had done, and he said he used a word, and somebody put up their hand and said, No, you can't, you can't say that now. And he just said, oh, oh, okay, I'm sorry. And he changed the word he was using. I didn't know that you couldn't use that word. And my point being that even if an editor of news at the BBC wasn't aware that that word wasn't the right thing to use, means that a lot of us are just going to be really we're just going to find this navigating the changes in the way society is working really tricky. Yeah,
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and we can get we can approach change differently.
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Can't we change? Can be exciting and we can be curious, or we can approach it with fear. And there's so much, you know, there's so much fear around parenting, because we're so flipping judgmental, exactly.
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And I think, are we so worried about, are we doing it right?
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Are we doing it right? Whereas, you know, earlier, we've talked about this before, you know, my kids fed, clothed, and we've got a roof over our head, you know, jackpot. We're doing a great job now. We've got, you know, I've got a crazy so there's a lot of fear involved. So when people don't agree, then it's has the stakes are higher. Yes.
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So I guess what I'm trying to do is, I want to show that we need to treat each other's viewpoints with respect and accept that people will differ. And I love that he's rich. Yes, that. And I think it's really good thing to encourage amongst other parents.
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So just say, you know, if you don't agree with someone's viewpoint, it's the way you put it. I did actually have an episode on conflict management where you can just respectfully try to find out, like, is it a value difference? Is it? What is it that's underlying this different way of looking at things?
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Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree, and disagreement or querying stuff that we say is really welcome. Yes, more of that.
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Yes. And I just want to say that I create this podcast with an open, sincere heart and a desire to reduce the fear in parenting. And the truth is, I'm acting mostly as a conduit for information. So I have opinions, yes, but they're based on vast amounts of reading. So I do spend a huge amount of my time researching and reading books that I find fascinating. Yeah, I'm on a hunt. I'm constantly like, Oh, look at that book. It's like shiny jewelry in a shop. And this point was not my point, the point he's talking about. So it actually came from, so this is the point about the lack of male teachers. Came from Richard Reeves, who is president of the American Institute for boys and men. And he wrote a book called of boys and men, which I'm sure is a play on Of Mice and Men.
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He's trying to grapple with the reasons why boys are now noticeably underperforming girls in education. This is a thing, and it's, this was one of his suggestions. It's like, I think it's worth talking about. What's interesting is that it's actually sparked lots of conversation on social media, and Reeves has actually been urging men to take up more roles in caring professions, including teaching. This is where the economy is growing quite rapidly. You know, the elderly Yes. And these are not the roles that were traditionally associated with men, no, right?
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So, so there's a whole kind of remodeling of the way society is working here. And the problem is a lot of boys don't see those as roles that they should take no, because they don't see it. Yes, and here's the world Andre doesn't think we need to stress having male role models in school. He's also saying women are, by nature more caring, which you could say is an older stereotype. Yeah. I mean, maybe boys just don't go into those caring things because they don't see men doing those things. No, there can be many reasons for that many, many reasons. So who knows? I think it's just worth a Yeah. Worth just open up the windows and have a look. We
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can discuss it with curiosity and interest, exactly,
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exactly. And I think Susie's comments about her son needing male role models is entirely valid. Yes,
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absolutely. That doesn't mean that everybody needs a ton of male teachers, but my son really benefited from trying to find a
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male role model. And for me, I agree with the phrase, you can't be what you can't see, and that's why we deliberately increased the number of presenters from ethnic minorities on TV in the UK. And as a woman, when I started presenting, I really struggled, because there were a very there was a very small pool of women who covered business news, and I couldn't emulate them in because the way women and men present themselves and the way we're judged is very different. Yes, noticeably different. This feedback I would get, the things that I was the way I delivered things, was different. So I'm and I stand by that, and I think kids look for role models that match the way they want to be.
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And we can tell our kids to follow whatever pass suits them, but I can guarantee that the majority of boys are not looking at women thinking, I want to be like them. The majority
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No. And a lot of it is or most of it is unconscious, isn't it? It's conscious. We assimilate to what we see around us, and then we act it out in our own lives, and it's unconscious. So if we don't see it, then we it's less likely we'll do it. Yeah, exactly
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so. And I think what we really want is we want a broad range of men doing all sorts of different roles and women, and for them to be able to see more opportunities being to be different. Yeah, Yeah, same. Anyway. If you have an opinion, please feel free to send it. Bring it on. We're up for it. We're up review, a lovely
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review from Caroline, and it says, Thank you, thank you and thank you again for your podcast. First of all, thank you, thank you, and thank you again for your podcast. It is so spot on. It makes me feel less alone on this journey. It gives me hope, makes me laugh, and most important of all, it takes the pressure off my shoulders and not the opposite. I could have, should have, etc. So thank you. From mum to mum, oh so lovely. I
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love that. And that's what we're trying to do.
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We're trying to release the pressure. Yeah, I think there's too much pressure. Here's one from darini Diva on Spotify. I love this woman. She's actually sent What two things to, and what we've got on Spotify is an instant response button. So if you're you know, a lot of people listen when they're running or walking the dogs or something, and you can see that there's a send us a text, and it comes straight through. And she this is her second one. She said, your podcast is a real lifesaver. Wow, I'm actually taking notes and writing down stuff so I can remember to use them with my own son. The part where you apologize for giving them too much freedom when they obviously were not ready to handle it. That's brilliant.
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Apart from taking notes, I'm listening to each episode at least three to four times, just so they sink in. Thank you so much. That's
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a lot of listening.
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Thank
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you very much.
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I know you're going to be sick at the problem. Listen when you've listened to them all. Can you just kind of tell us what we said? But no, that's absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for your support during the army.
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I'm glad it's helping. This is great. Susie nuggets.
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Yeah, I've got some different ones, but I think the one I'm going to pick is, because it's been a while, is I've just been away with my eldest, and he's 19, and he's going back to. His his second year at university. And I think we often have that we've talked about it in empty nest. I think we called it, you know, our kids go away, and it's, it's different, challenging life change, yes, and then it's just a nice confirmation that they come back, and the relationship you have. I mean, I haven't really seen him that much this summer, because he's got a girlfriend, and they spend a lot of time together, and other various reasons, which I won't bore you with him, but we had a few days together, and it was just so lovely to reconnect and chat and talk about all sorts of things. And it's the classic, you know, 19 year old. He's an adult, he's been a waste and doing lots of exciting things, and we have really interesting conversations. And then I've literally just had a text on my way to this podcast going, Oh, Mom, I think I've left most of my T shirts. So, you know, it's just such a lovely, lovely combination. But, yeah, but the idea, the idea that, you know, they come back, we don't say goodbye, and then they go on.
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They even though he actually hasn't been physically with us that much this summer, he is absolutely 100% there, you know, emotionally, it's, it's really beautiful,
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yeah, and I think that it's, it's, it's not that they've disappeared, it's that we needed to adjust. And it's very, yeah,
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it's very, very can be really hard, but it's kind of like the point of the nugget, maybe, is to say, you know, it's okay, no, it's not the end. It's never the end.
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And my one has nothing to do with parenting.
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Oh, I was at a conference and ended up between two ladies. One is an image and style consultant, and the other was telling her that she wants to sort her wardrobe, because she has overwhelming amounts of stuff and can't seem to figure it out. Okay, I interjected, because that's the kind of person I am, and I can't keep my mouth shut, but I've got a system. And they both stopped and looked at me and when I told when I'd explained it, the consultant said that's exactly what I would do, and she gets paid with this, so I'm going to give this to you for free, guys every half year, I pack away my winter or my summer clothes, whichever it is, in bags, and store them. You can stick them under your bed wherever. Okay, and those bags would that you would vacuum, yeah, okay, make sure they're clean first. When I swap bags, it's really exciting, because I can't remember what's in the other bags, right? And I get my daughter in, if I can, or both of them. And and I take time and pulling each garment out, try it on, or hold it up against myself, and go, do I love this? Does it look good on me? And if the answer is no, it goes in the recycling, like the charity shop, or on Vinted or something. And my daughters love putting stuff on vintage, because they make money from it.
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And and then I have gaps. I might have some gaps in my wardrobe, mostly not, but every now and then I get a gap in my wardrobe, and then and I've got clothes I've been wearing since the kids were babies, because I love them. And then when I go out shopping, my My policy is one in, one out, so I cannot put something in my wardrobe if I don't remove something from my wardrobe, unless there's a gap that I made with one of the exit items. And this is a really good way of looking at things, because it means that you always are mindful about what you have in your wardrobe. And when I look at things, I'm not going to buy it unless it's better than something I have at home. That's very impressive. It works so well. And I tell you, I love my wardrobe now, because I can reach in and get something out at any point, and I like it. It makes me feel good. I force my husband to do this. It's just, you know, let me clutter it's great. And my kids are now going, Okay, that's a really good idea, yeah.
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What do you charge?
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Just curious.
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I've given it to you for free. Well, you want me to come do it. We can come to an agreement. You come in here and do this for free, so I'm happy to come and do it. You could
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do a little photo shoot. Don't
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worry about it.
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Right back to the question. This listener said, Hello, I absolutely love your podcast.
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And here's the question, do you think all teams should go to therapy, just so they have a space to talk that isn't a parent, family member or friend.
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I've been pondering this lately and trying to equip my kids with all the tools I feel they will need in life. I have 14 and 15 year old girls. One is a big talker, the other one not so much, which I find difficult, as we're all so close, but in the teen years, she's pushed me away somewhat. I've been told this is the mother push. Do you have any thoughts on this? Feeling very empowered listening to the podcast. She says, now that's what we want. That's lovely.
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Yeah, this, this last sentence, is what I think be empowered.
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Okay, let's unpack it, because, you know, we can give you a short and
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long Yeah, it's a really interesting one. Yeah, I'm
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going to start Yeah, go for it by saying, Well, I was at the same conference I was talking about, and two mums came up to me separately. They didn't hear each other. They both said, I have one child out of my children who's different to all the rest of us. Okay, so one of them. She said, we're all really kind of emotionally buttoned up and in control. This child cries just in any time, all the time, and I don't, I don't really understand it, like, I don't know what. And then the other woman is a super bouncy, really energetic, wonderful woman, and she said, we're all really super bouncy, energetic in our family. And then I've got a son who doesn't really have many friends, he doesn't care. Doesn't really want to make lots of I keep trying to say to him, go and do this. And doesn't care. So there is, this is a thing, and it happens a lot in families. And don't panic. Yeah. I
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mean, the interesting thing, the last bit you just said, the interesting he doesn't care. He doesn't care. So what's the problem?
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There's
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no problem, and it's very, it's quite, I think we can look at so a child that's not saying much, and think, Oh, and if we're talkers, think, well, then I'm talking problematizing something wrong.
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Yes. And that comes on to the whole therapy thing. So, Suzy, you're a therapist, yes. How do you tend to function in terms of, you know, if someone came to you and said, I've got a child here, do you think I should put them in therapy?
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I would want to know why and what, what the reason was, and whether the child wanted to you need, you need a whole load of context. What do they think is the issue as to why they would need therapy at all? Because for me, I think for children, for teenagers, there has to be, from my personal point of view, it has to be a reason for it. I personally don't think that everybody needs to go in therapy. I think that's a in this country anyway. It's that's not that's not necessary.
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I don't think, or even you know what we prefer, because I think we're then putting problems on people and trying to make them live up to some kind of weird expectation, like, like the examples you just gave, they were all different. We have different ways of coping and and it's only when it's a problem that we need to have a space to unpack it and talk about it, yeah, and then, and then, if the child doesn't want to come, which is the case sometimes.
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Then I think, if that, if, if I kind of judge, and from the story I'm told that, that maybe there is something in it, and maybe it would be helpful, then I offer, I say, just, you know, just let them come and meet me, and there's no pressure, they can kind of check me out.
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Because obviously therapy, you have to, there has to be a connection otherwise, especially for teenagers, otherwise, there's at best, it's a waste of time. At worst, it's really quite unhelpful, and also puts them off therapy for the rest of their lives, if it doesn't help.
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So come have a chat, and I make it very light, very kind of this smooth is what I do. I have three teenagers, which always kind of opens up the room a little bit for them. And then it's has to be their choice. Do you want to come back? Yes, no, go and talk to mum dad about it.
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They usually do, but they don't always. It has to be, you can't make someone go into therapy, whether they're a kid or an adult. It's just, is not helpful.
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Yeah, and I'm, a bit look, I'm going to be honest about something that I haven't talked to about a lot of people, but I, when I was at university at the end of my first year, I had a breakdown.
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So what I mean by that was I went into, you know, the where you talk about the window of tolerance, and I went below, where I was staring at walls, and I couldn't function, and I, and that was because all the stuff I'd dealt with as a child had been, had started, I started realize, caught up with you, yeah, and I went and saw my tutor, and he said, You need counseling. Yeah, you need to see someone. And I turned up, and I just thought, I do not want to be really I do not want this. And I went about reading and fixing it myself. Okay, people are different. I personally, it fills me with horror the idea of being with a therapist. It's not, it's not any particular therapist, just I don't work that way. So I think people do vary enormously, absolutely, and I'm very but I'm very open, like I'm happy to talk about the problems that I encounter, particularly, they'll help other people, but I don't want a therapist, so, so I think we have to be mindful that people will be on anything from they really benefit from the support of somebody who's trained to that what I what really concerns me about this?
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So this move, which I'm seeing a lot of towards the therapy model, and we've got a lot of it going on on social media. So you just go on social media any day, you'll be seeing lots of these, these sort of the terminology from psychotherapy and bandied around. And all of
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it's really helpful and really useful, because little little bits that we can let or learn from
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hiccup. But there's an element of, what are we? What are we doing here? And what concerns me is, if we say to our kids, are you need to go to therapy? You know what we what are we saying? Are we saying to our kids? So first of all, if they said, I've got this problem, I most of the time, it's a normal teenage problem, so it's fine. Like working out, is this a not because there are so many little things that crop up or big things that crop up as teenagers, and they kind of have to go through it, and sometimes they get stuck, and I think they do need some help if the parents can't do it, but a lot of the time, if we can't cope with their feelings, or we go, oh, then what we're kind of saying to our kids is, you're so broken. You need somebody professional. To fix you. That's what worries me. Yeah, I'm
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not sure I totally agree with that. I think, I mean, I It's obviously a work, work that I do. I think therapy is incredible, and I think it can be life saving, which I'm not hearing you say it's not at all. No, no, yeah. But I think, I think it can be. I think, for me, the problem is that if we make it a norm, we're then saying that you're not good enough without it, that you're kind of lacking in some way, that if you don't have this, you know, amazing, incredible, magical space, that sometimes it's, you know, pretended to be then, then, you know, you're not going to make it kind of thing, which I think is wrong. I don't agree with that. I think it's absolutely necessary sometimes.
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And I think it's all I think we also have to be really careful with a narrative, because there is still an old narrative of of, you know, that you go to therapy if you're broken and if we can't cope with you, then, then it's kind of last, last chance saloon kind of thing. And I disagree with that. I think, I think stepping in and having, you know, a few sessions when somebody's just having a wobble or it's difficult, can be unbelievably helpful and really, really healthy, but to then go and say everybody needs it, I do not agree with, yeah,
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and what about because, so I was talking to someone recently, and she said, Yes, she needed quite a bit of therapy, because she had a very difficult upbringing. And she said, Now, once a year, every now and then I think, well, I need to speak to her, because she knows my history, and she just check in and it will reset her. What about sort of, because the worry is that there's this, this sense that they could become a crutch, that actually you learn, particularly if you start as a teenager, where there isn't necessarily a huge amount wrong, and you think, Oh, well, this is how it works. And when you're paying someone to look after you, they don't have to treat you the way another friend would. So you know your friend when you're when you're full of crap or something, and your friend goes, actually, that's whatever is your you know, your therapist hopefully shapes it and reframes things for you in a more professional way. But I just wonder whether that, what concerns me is that you might end up in a situation like Abigail schwa, he wrote a book called Bad therapy, yes, which I found fascinating. It's actually, it's called Bad therapy, why the kids aren't growing up? Very interesting.
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And she said that her therapist became a really expensive friend, okay, over years, which she just relied on this therapist. And
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before you brought the book into the conversation, what you just said was, I was just about to say, Yeah, that's a bad therapist. Okay, like and like, that's not therapy. Talk about why. Well, for me, and there are lots of ways to look at this, and there are lots of therapists, there are lots of ways to practice therapy. For me, therapy is a safe space where you can share what you need to share in a confidential space. Obviously, confidentiality. If there's something really dangerous, then you have to break that, but usually it's a safe space where you can share what's on your heart, and you're met non judgmentally, and you're nudged, and you're you're helped to reach conclusions yourself. So if you become, if it becomes a crutch, then that's probably because it's not very good therapy. Interesting. Yes, it shouldn't be a crutch. It should be. It's almost like holding a mirror up. And I'll listen, and I'll go, yeah, what? And I'll, I'll feed back, oh, this is what I hear you're saying. So you think like this and and I see my job as I'm unpacking. I get, I get delivered something, and I create. I spend a long time making sure that the space is safe so they feel, they feel safe in the room, and that I'm not going to judge them. And once that's established, then they will, you know, share stuff with me, and then we will unpack it together. I will feed it back. I will mirror it back, I will we, I do somatic work, which means feeling things through your body, because our body stores our emotions and and basically, if we don't release them in a safe space, then then we just keep packing them down, and they pop up in all sorts of unhelpful ways. So it's, it's an unpacking of the the heart, the mind and the body. And then once that's unpacked and is nurtured and held in a in a safe and and good way. Then, then it's theirs, yeah, and they can then go into the world and and feel safe with their emotions.
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Because we're, we're emotion phobic, and we stuff it all down, and then it, you know, comes up unhealthy. Really, that's how I see it.
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And it's really interesting, because I'm hearing what I do with my kids naturally. And I think the question is whether we as parents have those skills. So I will lit. I The hardest thing is having the emotional space where, because you can feel very because, particularly, be related to them, you can feel very anxious about and staying calm, and then being able to unpick it for them, help them to say, Okay, so is it this or this? And those, those techniques that we talked about, I think, in episode two, the talking and listening techniques, and then reframe so saying, you know, could you?
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Could you? Is it possible to sit this way and let them have a look around so it's outside of their body, it's out. It's a way for them, but you're doing it in a much more sort of, sort of skilled way. Yeah, we parents can do absolutely a lot of this
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stuff is holding a safe space. And I would say to that it's very, very different when I'm with with a client.
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It's very different from when I'm with my own kids a because I don't get triggered. I don't get triggered, say, my client. I think it's one of the big I might worry about them and feel various things for them, which I then deal with in supervision, but I'm not triggered. And that's that's a really important point. And for some of us, you know, maybe, maybe as parents, we're going through other things, or maybe there's a massive challenge for the kids that we're just not able to hold or hold that safe space or deal with it's too much, and then I think we're doing our kids a disservice if we try and soldier on. And I've got this and and the idea that you know that we're failing in some way, if we can't do it and we have to send them to a therapist, I think that's really unhelpful, because sometimes the best thing is for them to be with somebody they don't know, because then they can share in a in a way that they're not worried about hurting mom's feelings or dad's feelings, or their brother or sister, you know, they they can properly share. And sometimes that's really, really necessary, I think so. It's judging, judging the the situation and whether you're able to deal with what's being shared, you know, thrown at you as a parent, and a lot it's, there's no, there's no shame in going, do you know what we need help with this? Because I can't, I'm for whatever reason, I can't right now, and I
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:13.920
like the we, because I also think a lot of the time the parents could probably benefit from from help.
00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:14.220
Yeah,
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family therapy.
00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:22.460
Yeah, is brilliant. Like having the whole family in there, because it's usually a relational dynamic anyway, that the problem is, yeah,
00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:58.119
and we did one lady messaged. And when something i It's not catastrophic, but it was horrible. Happened to her son, and she was in a panic. And there was somebody I know who deals with trauma, who was available, and I sent her to the woman she did, I think, two or three sessions her son did two or three sessions. Was armed with some fantastic techniques, and that was it, yeah. So sometimes it can be, really, is, you know, a very acute thing that can be dealt with really quickly with arming them with information that they whether that they can use, skills they can use, or it can be a much more drawn up. So there are different reasons why you would need this help, yeah,
00:27:58.119 --> 00:28:31.579
and there's this, this, the idea of you needing sort of tools and tips that can be amazing and really helpful in the moment. But it's also, I mean, for me, I think for me, the biggest healing part of therapy, I would say, is, is the knowledge that you have this space, like when stuff maybe is a bit too much overwhelming that, Oh, it's okay. I've got this safe space that I can go to Thursday at one o'clock. And I know I can, ah yes, and that can be like, it doesn't sound like a big deal, but it can be really a relief for some people to to have that. I don't think that should be on.
00:28:31.579 --> 00:29:00.480
Abigail Schreier points out that the American Psychological Association has a circular definition of psychotherapy, and what they say is it's a psychological service provided by trained professional. And she says it's like asking, what's a clock, something that measured time? What's time? Something measured by a clock? And there's no real explanation for what it is that you know. How do you say this is a therapist and this isn't how skilled and qualified as this therapist who's qualifying them? How is it why we seeing that therapist rather than a different therapist,
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:06.480
which is absolutely crucial, particularly when it's working with with young people.
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:27.859
Yeah, absolutely have to be skilled. But all research shows that, I mean, there's so many different types of therapy, all research shows that the best outcomes in therapy, however you want to define them, are, it's relational, so you need to connect with the therapist and the person going to therapy.
00:29:23.660 --> 00:29:27.859
There has to be a connection.
00:29:28.220 --> 00:29:43.539
And if that's not there, then it doesn't matter what kind of therapy, whether you're doing CBT or psychodynamic, or whatever it is, you pick somatic, whatever it has to be, the relationship has to be there, which is why it's such an important part of therapy is to create this safe space in the snow. I
00:29:43.539 --> 00:29:50.619
love that underestimate. I want to bring up something that Abigail schra talked about, which was the iatrogenic effects of therapy.
00:29:48.099 --> 00:29:50.619
Are you familiar with that term?
00:29:50.619 --> 00:30:50.559
No. So an iatrogenic condition is a state of ill health or adverse effects caused by medical treatment. She said that. But what's weird is, when you think about cancer, and you think about women dying in childbirth, and you name all the different ailments and problems, when we've come up with medical answers to them, we've seen the results improve. And she said, the irony is that with therapy, we've got more and more therapists, but we've got much greater problems with mental health. And she said, why? Like, so what her whole book is about, like, what's going on here? And one of the things that Twenge, who's a very well respected research in children, says that kids have shifted their locus of control to external. What I mean by that locus of control is, if you have an internal locus of control, you believe you have the ability to fix your own problems. If you have an external one, you believe others hold the power. And it's a very difficult Yes,
00:30:50.559 --> 00:32:03.420
which is why it's very, very important that the therapy is empowering the person who's receiving therapy, so that they feel, ah, I'm now better equipped to deal with the ups and downs of life, rather than, you know, this idea that the therapist is going to eradicate all problems in life. Great point. And I love that you know you're going to go out fixed, because that's a nonsense absent that makes me cross, but it's and also, you said earlier, this idea of normalizing the ups and downs of life, like we have this misconception when I when I teach kids in schools, like we have this idea that, you know, we ought to be able to go through life, you know, straight path, and everything should be wonderful, and everyone's sweeping all the difficult stuff out the way for us so, and that's what does happen in life sometimes. So that when life hits us with a curveball, which it will. Some of them are bigger than others. We we think it's terribly unfair and it's awful, and it needs fixing and eradicating. And why have I got this kind of thing so kind of opening the conversation more so that, of course, we're going to experience up and down. Of course, stuff's going to be difficult in life. How are we going to manage it? Not, not.
00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:09.900
Can we get rid of it? It's a very different conversation, and a therapist can help to to cement that and empower the people that they they help.
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:18.720
I love that, and I think one of the things that she complains about is, if we keep saying to the kids, how you feeling? How do you feel?
00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:54.519
There's a world renowned expert in the irogenic effects of therapy and and he says that happiness is not the usual emotion, and out of our 60,000 seconds of a day, most of the time, that's not what we're feeling. And that actually acknowledging that. And rather, if you keep saying to them, how you feeling, what's good, then what you're going to do is you're actually pouring, you're pouring oil on that fire emotion. And we kind of have to be able to get to our kids to understand that whilst our emotions are valid, they're not a stable base to to land. They don't then, you know, there would be changes, like the weather. Our emotions
00:32:54.519 --> 00:33:08.400
are signals. Our emotions are signals, and they change all the time. They're impermanent. And if we can learn how to read them and understand what is this emotion signaling to me right now, how can I act on it? Do I need to act on it?
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:29.779
That is a very different way of being in the world, and that is, in my humble opinion, a better way of tackling that. And I also think that, I think this idea that we need our kids to be happy all the time, and I put my hand up for that as well. I I want my kids to be happy. We need it. Yeah, we need to really have a look at ourselves. What is that? And that's fear based.
00:33:30.140 --> 00:33:34.759
What is that saying about me?
00:33:30.140 --> 00:33:47.799
What? What am I trying to smooth over and pour oil on that I can't bear? Like, if my kid is unhappy, or my kid is suffering, even if it's just a little bit, I can't bear it, so therefore I have to try and fix it in my kid. And I think that's step one. I
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:56.799
think that I absolutely agree with you, and that's, you know, where maybe sometimes, rather than put the kid in therapy, we need to start with ourselves. What's my need?
00:33:56.859 --> 00:34:04.799
And actually say to yourself, I'm helping everybody. If I get some support and some therapy, that's what I need. Yeah, absolutely, I love that.
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.259
So I stay regulated.
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.259
How
00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:16.980
can I stay regulated? Because actually, when when kids have a parent who feels like they they're regulated. They're in charge.
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:22.280
They can actually find answers and they can they can cope with the child's emotions, they're going to do a lot better they
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:30.079
are, and they learn that, and it's unbelievably challenging. I mean, I've had a summer where I'm not sure I've done that particularly well.
00:34:27.380 --> 00:34:54.820
Yeah, me too. And it kind of repeats, and you go, Oh, actually, I'm really knackered, and maybe I should take better care of myself. But when we ride the waves with the teenagers, and some of them are roller coasters, like, it depends on the kid, doesn't it? If we ride those waves and go up and down with them, that's no help. We need to learn to stay regulated, and that doesn't mean we can't get angry with them or show emotion. Of course, that would be weird, but we need to be able to manage our be able to regulate and
00:34:54.818 --> 00:35:07.739
be able to just stand back, because I think my daughter, or both of them, they'll call me. And they will vent about something, oh, I've got no friends. My school's awful. I'm failing everything.
00:35:04.139 --> 00:35:13.259
My life's terrible. And I will actually take that on board. I will just say to them, oh, that sounds really hard. And I'll try to give them some suggestions.
00:35:13.259 --> 00:35:21.139
Most of it's listening, but I'll come away feeling absolutely wrecked, yeah, and then I'll get a message from them later, going, Oh, I had a great, yeah, yeah. Or we
00:35:21.139 --> 00:35:25.460
go in and we go in and we try and fix it, because we think, Oh, my God, they're not happy. They don't need it.
00:35:25.579 --> 00:36:12.179
And kids are very different as well. So I mean, I have three kids and and I I've often told this story, which I think is, is hilarious. I have a, like, one of my kids who he doesn't really like talking about feelings, and he will, and he's, he's, he will if it's necessary. But I remember once, I don't know if I've said this on the podcast before, it was quite a long time ago, and he'd come back from his dad's he was quite upset, but doesn't, didn't say it was, just meant he was sitting on his bed, scrolling on his phone, probably, this is quite a long time ago, and I went in, I thought was being terribly understanding and going, Oh, it must be really hard. I'm trying to be. And he just looked at me and went, Mum, you're making it so much worse. Can you just stop talking? They don't. You know they're different. Whereas my daughter, she needs to talk about every single little detail of stuff, so we
00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:15.719
have to judge that as well. And if you have a daughter who doesn't, that's okay, yeah, yeah.
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:18.119
It's not a gender, particularly gender thing.
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:21.500
So if you'd like a consultation with Susie.
00:36:21.500 --> 00:36:22.219
Yeah, quite
00:36:22.219 --> 00:36:23.659
passionate about this topic. Can you
00:36:25.820 --> 00:36:40.719
tell I love Susie and I trust her to look after me and my children and my family. So what? How would they get hold of you? If they do want to, we did. I didn't set this up, by the way. Let's take it.
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:40.719
Let's take a while. Can find
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:48.639
me on my website, so all my links are there. So that's www amindful Life co uk, and the links in the
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:51.099
podcast too.
00:36:48.639 --> 00:37:31.880
She also does a lot of lots of work with companies running workshops, and you know that can really change the mindset of employees and reduce overall stress. So take a look at that if you're in business. If you found this interesting, hey, send it to another person. You can search for other episodes on the podcast player, which is at www teenagersuntangled com, or your own podcast player. Sorry, the most powerful way to help this podcast get out there is by sending it to other parents that you know or anyone you know. You can leave a review on the podcast player that's also very powerful, or email at teenagers untangled@gmail.com tell us what you think. That's it for this week. Bye, Bye. For now, Bye, bye. You
