Transcript
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Hello, I'm Rachel Richards and welcome to teenagers untangled where we combine research by experts and ideas from other parents to solve your problems. As a parenting coach, I saw the incredible power of getting people together to share ideas and support each other. So welcome, pull up a chair. And let's begin. On today's show, we start at the very beginning by having a rummaging your own parenting toolbox. Where did your skills come from? And how useful are they in dealing with the child you have? Also, we have a section called tangling with your teenager where we deal with listener problems and this time is how to get your teenager to do something you've asked them to, like tidy up their room. I'm joined by Susie Aslan, who is a teacher of mindfulness qualified psychotherapist, musician and mother to three teenagers including twins. Hi, Susie, thanks for being here with us. Hi, Rachel.
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Thanks for inviting me.
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When it comes to solving parenting issues. I found that there's never one single answer because families are so complicated. So what we want to do on teenagers untangled is give you a chance to think about problems hopefully before they happen and to hear examples of how to deal with them. Susie, I found this work really well when coaching parenting groups. Is it something you using mindfulness?
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Yeah, I do. I much prefer teaching in groups, I think it's a much better way to learn. I do want to ones as well, which is also a great way to learn. But if people can come to a group I find the learning is it just normalizes stuff. So if I teach something to somebody, they can learn it. But if somebody in the group says oh, yeah, I do that, too. Then there's I don't know. There's a collective sigh where people go oh, yeah, then it's okay. If you're more relaxed, yes.
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Normal. Happy about sharing.
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Yeah. Experiences. Yeah, normal stories.
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I wanted to come to my own parenting. I'd had some experience with having stepchildren. But as Dr. Eric Sigmund the psychologist told me it's rather different from raising your own. So beyond how to feed and change my baby's nappy, I hadn't really focused on my skills. Susie, were you better prepared?
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Yes. And no. I had been doing a psychotherapy course, in the years up to giving birth to my first child.
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So I had spent some time rummaging through my own baggage, which was really helpful. But the actual parenting part with my own kids.
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No, I didn't really feel that prepared. So both I guess,
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yes. As you said to me before you you're kind of better at parenting before you have children. Yeah.
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better ideas, enroll the clock onto the toddler years, and I realized that my own parenting had Donald was nothing to recruit me for the job. So as a journalist, I did what I always do, which is to read everything I could get my hands on to find out how it works. Susan, what about you? How did you get some skills get skilled up?
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Well, I did use some of the stuff that I had learned in my psychotherapy, training.
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So sort of awareness of my own patterns, awareness of how to be a parent, actual hands on child stuff, I read some books, got pretty confused. read a few books got even more confused, because
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the experts know what to do. But you know, when it comes to actually applying things at home, it can be rather more complicated. So I found it so interesting that I ended up as a parenting coach and mentor of other coaches for a fantastic charity called Parent gym. And what I realized is that parenting is a combination of love, and rules.
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And there's never really a perfect answer to any parenting problem. I mean, there's no manual, right, Susie?
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No, unfortunately, no one written yet.
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Let's look at the love and rules in our parenting styles and start with what's probably the biggest influence which is our own parents and upbringing. So think back to when you were a teenager and the way in which you were parented and we can learn up from there. So please join in at home so these key elements of parenting love, and rules. Let's start with love. Because we should always start with that message. So my question is, was your house full of love and warmth? Hugs laughter family Games time together? Did you feel noticed or were your parents cold and distant, brittle and demonstrative absent? Did you feel unheard or unnoticed? And, you know, I'll start off with with I came from a background of parenting where my father was very Edwardian.
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And that's very much a, you know, children should be seen and not heard attitude. And my mother was very and demonstrative. I couldn't tell you whether she loved me or not, because there was no real connection or communication about love at all. In our house.
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No one talked about it. There was no touching, hugging. And, you know, I've coached people in my parenting classes, one lady who came back to me and said, Oh, my God, I've just realized I grew up thinking that everybody else was perverted because they were holding hands and hugging and FFP. And now I realize we're the weird ones, because no one in my family hugs. And I'm not saying that it's, it's a terrible thing. But I think that people, children feel much more safe and protected and nurtured if they have a sense of being loved. What about you, Susie?
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Yeah, I think it's also a generational thing. I think we think very differently in our generation, and we have much more. I think nurturing, and being with our kids is much more at the forefront. Whereas in my parents generation, it was just different. And I definitely felt the differences there. I think all parents are doing the best they can with the tools they have at the time, I think it's really important to remember that. And it's really valuable to look back on our own childhood patterns to see what we liked, what we didn't like, and what we want to carry on or what we don't want to carry on.
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And that's
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exactly it.
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Because when we critique our parents, and their parenting style is not about laying blame at their door. It's about thinking, how did that make me feel? And are there things that I would do differently? Or are there things that I can take from it and use myself, so it's just very much about thinking about these things rather than just blindly responding to our upbringing. And that brings me down to the second thing, which is about rules, because rules are everywhere in society, whether explicit like road signs or implicit like manners, our home is the first place we encounter them and learn what they mean and why they're important. And we've probably all experienced going to someone else's home and feeling like it's almost alien compared to our own environment. And, and this is important because teenagers not doing that a lot more that they notice the way other people's houses are set up. They spend a lot more time going out to other people's homes or to other places. So this, this rule, environment starts to shift. And so the question is, what were your parents like in terms of rules?
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Were they really relaxed about how you lived your life? Did they let you set your own boundaries? Were you free to choose your bedtime? Free to Choose your food allowed to make your own decisions? Or were they very strict about bedtimes mealtimes, rituals, clothes, manners, tidiness? And if they were strict, with a consistent,
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yeah, really interesting question with rules.
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There were definitely rules in my childhood, definite rules about you know, the basics, bedtime, and, and food and, and all that kind of thing. I was just sitting here thinking, when you were saying that about my kids, I had way less rules. And I just remember children coming into our house, because I let my kids draw on the walls in their bedroom. And they had like, when we moved to the UK, because we lived in Denmark, they were quite literal. And they could just do whatever they wanted in their bedrooms, and there was a lot of drawing on their walls, and children would come into their bedroom. And, and my two would go, you can draw on the wall. And, and they just didn't know what to do. They'd kind of be looking around going and with pen in hand going, kind of kind of really kind of really going.
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Yeah, gone.
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That's fascinating, because my husband would lose his mind if my children drew on the walls.
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Yeah, I mean, their bedrooms.
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But yeah, it could do whatever, it doesn't matter what where it is it that would be an absolute, no child's. So that's interesting, because again, that's a very different approach to parenting. And in my house, my father had a very, very strange but strict rules sometimes. And they were completely inconsistent. And my mother didn't notice at all. So I couldn't, I was allowed to stay out and play until whatever time everybody else would be called in. And I would still be outside and think, Oh, alright, well, I'll just go home next July. Or, you know, digital, lots of things like that, which meant that it was quite confusing. And I spent a lot of time trying to work out what I should be doing. Not to get into trouble.
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Yes. Yeah. When it's inconsistent. That's, that's really difficult, because then you're searching for the boundary all the time, money
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all the time.
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And I think, what would be what probably would have been easier for me? What if I had consistent rules? And if I knew that they I think the rules are connected to caring. So someone else can feel very disciplinarian and uncomfortable, but other rules are all about care and love. And it's about trying to get that right. Isn't it
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flexible with them.
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So you can have rules that you know that work one day, but they don't work the next and then you can have a conversation about it.
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Yes. And I think were those conversations forthcoming that might have made life a lot easier. So how I'd like to turn our mind to how we parent our own children, and how that compares with the way that we were parented. And the interesting thing about it is that when we like what our parents did, we often mindlessly do the same. We didn't really even notice that we're doing it because it just felt right. And if we didn't like it, we just do the opposite isn't necessarily the best way. And I suppose what I'm getting at is that neither is necessarily the right decision, because neither is necessarily your decision. And our parents were coping with their roles in a very different world from the one in which we're now having to operate, their life was very different.
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Maybe their techniques aren't even relevant anymore. And when it comes to bad parenting, just doing the opposite isn't necessarily going to help your children. Because when we react to our bad parenting is often about us the way we're parenting is not about the children that we've been given. It's about, you know, trying to unravel the anger that we felt from the way that we were treated.
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Yeah, I think most of parenting is about us.
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Interests, which can be quite annoying, because it's us that have to do the work. I think if we don't tune into to and become aware of who we are some as people and what we value, what we think is important if we don't know that, and it's very difficult to know to pair how to parent. And I think when there's imbalance in the children or in the dynamics, then it usually comes back to us. Which is, which is a different way of looking at it. But I find that to be true in my in my home, when I'm out of balance or things are difficult in my personal life or whatever's going on whatever it doesn't really matter, then that manifests itself in the kids somehow.
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So we're really parenting ourselves when we're parenting children. Yeah.
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And if we haven't first says, Okay, what do I value? What what's important to me, then how on earth can we decide which boundaries we want to enforce? Or which are important if we don't know first what we think is important?
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And what's even more complicated is I mean, you're, you're a single parent, yeah. When you've got two parents who may well have very different attitudes to the way that life should, you know, home should be run, for example, I mean, I've had one woman in my parenting group whose husband was little more than a toddler himself, you know, he had a real, really lovely exuberant attitude to life, but there was literally no understanding of why he should get dressed in the morning. And you know, what, when breakfast should be had, and it was very loose sense of what rules were. And this was very frustrating for her because she just had a different style.
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So in a way, we had to talk to each other about all you know, and understand ourselves. Yeah.
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And for me, whenever I'm dealing with my children, I tried to remove the emotion by saying to myself, What am I trying to achieve here? So if I'm trying to get something to happen, or anything that's going on, I just think, what is my goal here? And it's always should, it always should be to raise competent adults, people who are capable of coping themselves. So if you strip away everything else, and you look at what you're trying to get them to do, the question is, is this going to help them, you know, is the way that I'm telling them, they should do this? Helping that to happen?
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Yeah, I mean, I think the kids are always competent. I think they really are. There's, we lived in Denmark for years. And there's a brilliant man called Yes. For you all, who wrote a book, the competent child, and his approach is very much children are competent, they need guidance, they need help they need. They need assistance with sort of the dynamics of the family and all this stuff like that. But they're innately competent. So for example, when a kid is struggling with something, or there's an argument at home, or whatever it is, they're trying to tell you something that sort of tuning into that all the time and trying to work out what's going on rather than an agenda.
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Interesting, interesting. And as you're here, Susie's comes Susie comes from a sort of more, what would you call it? Northern European frame? Yes, exactly. And so it's an interesting it'll be lovely contrast to hear the different way that it thinks are perceived from from from Denmark, for example, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this segment. Was there anything about the way you were parented that really helped you? Or are there things you are struggling with because you don't feel your childhood equips you for this stage? Our email address is help at teenagers untangled.com. Now this next session is called tangling with teenagers a chance for us to take her particular problem and try to offer you some solutions.
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We've already been sent some excellent questions ranging from ones about sex and drugs and how honest you should be about your past with your teenager to whether they should be allowed to wander asleep in the weekend.
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Now Natalie wrote to us saying my son drives me mad because I've asked him a million times to put his clothes away and he never does or does Some, but not all of it, what can I do? I'm really fed up. Susie, what do you think?
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Well, I think it's very much dependent on what your own boundaries are and what your own way of living is at home because our house is well can be quite messy. And there's the drawing
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on the walls for
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clearly bothers this, this lovely mother who's written in that it's messy. So that's the thing for her, it's clearly not an issue for her son. So maybe how can she manage that in a way that closing the door or not being bothered by it? Or or you know, asking yourself How important is it fight, you know, pick your battles? Is this really important? Or is this something I can let go?
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Absolutely. And we've we've had some really great responses, and they vary a great deal. They were the punitive ones, like linking a tidy room directly receiving pocket money, some have changed the Wi Fi password, and allowed them to have it only once the room was tidy. Someone put everyone everything in a bin bag and hit it with the threat of it being thrown out unless it was put away. My daughter said, Oh, well just offered to tidy up for me, I'll do it. I'll do it instantly. She can't bear the idea of me going in her room and going through her possessions.
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I've even seen the suggestion that having a door on your bedroom is a privilege and not a right. So the door should be removed until the room is tidy.
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But those are all punitive measures. You saw some thread about this, didn't you?
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I mean, I haven't, I don't think I've ever asked my kids to tidy their bedrooms. It just is that's, I feel that's their space, and they do what they want with it. And eventually, when it's grim enough, they do something about it. But I did read something, I think it was from the States.
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And it was very funny. And it was families who got fed up and they obviously mattered to them.
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They wanted these bedrooms to be tidy for whatever reason, and they recommended putting black rice down because it looks like mouse droppings looks really like mouse droppings. And then the teenagers would freak out and go how disgusting and clean up. Which is funny. I mean the dry. Well, if that bothers you, if it you know, having a messy room bothers you, then yeah, go for it. But maybe maybe it's you maybe it's not the most important thing, and
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maybe it's not.
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And for some people they like you they say this is not something to stress about why don't you just shut the door and ignore what's going on in the room. Another said the child may need help with decluttering and supporting working out the best way to put things away. So you know, they haven't developed the skills yet on how do I rather than just dumping something on the floor? Is there a is there a peg for this is there, you know, how would I manage my wardrobe and my storage facilities to ensure that they're used, you know, appropriately, one parent pointed out that some people are naturally tidier than others and being given the sense that you are constantly disappointment, or not good enough is very debilitating for children. Yeah.
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And actually, let's be honest, nobody is going to have on their gravestone she had a tidy house.
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That's how little it really matters in the grand scheme of things. But I think your point about checking our own feelings about these things is really at the crux of it because I had my oldest stepdaughter living with us for a while. And she's absolutely adorable. She's, you know, very, very capable. But the room was just used to make me cringe every time I walk past the bedroom, and I wouldn't go into my teenagers bedrooms or my young adults bedrooms and and expect to go and, you know, go through anything, because I do think it's their space. And I think it's important to respect that it's their space. But you know, the coffee cups had gone, there were no cups left in the cupboards. And I kept saying to her, could you please just clear up and bring the stuff downstairs. And eventually, I lost it with her and it wasn't a good, wasn't a good wasn't a discussion. Let's put it that way. And actually, what I managed to say to her was that I think the word they use nowadays is triggering, because I come from a chaotic household where, you know, tidy, was never what it was it was just and I found it very stressful as a teenager, and I'd never really learned how to tidy up. It just reminded me of that he made me feel really upset, and that there was no respect for the way that I decided to set my house up. And when I explained that to her and said, you know what's what's happening is I'm looking at you thinking you're disrespecting me because this matters to me. It was it was a transformation, because she could see why and that it was about not not about me trying to impose something on her. It was more about a need that I had inside me and I think she maybe had no idea. Exactly.
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And I think I think that that's why in every single situation the communication is critical and that you have to sort of work out first why it's so important to you so that you can then express it properly to the child because as you said, it seems not to matter to them.
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No, no. No But why do I need to pick this stuff up?
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It's not bothering me.
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But actually, I remember somebody saying to me once, you know, it's much easy, like it's much easier when your rooms tidy. Yeah,
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but my kids, I think some I mean, my children are very different with how they have their rooms, I have a daughter who's super, super tidy, and has been massive, mega organized room, and I wish she do the whole house. And her brother, who I'm sure wouldn't mind me saying this, his room is not quite like that should we say. But he is he does reach a limit. So like, he'll reach a limb where he can't find anything, or he's got the wrong clothes, or you know, they're not washed, because they haven't made it to the washing basket, and he needs them. And then he'll give it a blitz. So he reaches his own limits, and then you know, self regulate. So
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interesting, interesting. And I think my older daughter is actually quite tidy. And she said to me that she had seen some article, which was talking about the emotional impact of just simply tidying up. And she said that she knows now that if, when it comes to the end of the day, and she's had a very stressful day, the mere act of just putting everything away, calms her and makes her feel ready for the next day. But not everybody's going to feel that way. So it's about I guess, about genuinely respecting that you've got another human being rather than just a child, because you've gone from that stage of saying, what you've got to do these things, to then saying, Okay, I've got to start respecting that this person may want to live differently,
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and an awareness and we bring it back to mindfulness and awareness of what's what's okay for me and what's not okay.
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And if we don't sort of tune into our own needs and our own limits and our own triggers, then we just reactive and reacting and going, like tidy, tidy or whatever. And we don't really maybe haven't really questioned whether that actually is important or not,
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when you've got somebody who, or people who are the breadwinners who are paying for everything in a property, it can feel very disrespectful if the way that they want things to be isn't followed by the other people in the house. So there's that as well.
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But like you so beautifully did. If you don't explain that, then they don't know that. Do they just dumping clothes? They don't know. They don't know that that is interpreted as disrespectful.
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And they're just dropping their clothes.
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Yes. And that's I think that's absolutely the heart of it. It's this, this quite often children and teenagers, we sort of expect them to suddenly be aware of their behavior and how it impacts people. But in actual fact, what we need to do is accept that they are not going to know this stuff without being explicit, and perhaps a bit more communications,
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the order of the day, and letting stuff go.
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It's fascinating. I'd love to know if any of you have another suggestion or any more ways in which you've tackled this topic.
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Do you care? Do you care about whether your children have a messy room or not. And our next session, we are going to be tackling teenagers and alcohol, which is a massive, massive topic, and I'm sure we'll come back to it several times over, it's not going to be a one hit wonder. And we'll also tackle a question sent in by Alex. How do I stay connected with my teenager when they argue and don't seem to want me anymore?
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My friend Natalie, not one who wrote in this week, but she told me she feels like parenting teenagers is a process of mourning the loss of her babies and her own youth and realizing that they have more friends and funding. You know, this is again, it's some of it's about us, isn't it? We'd love to hear your answers to this question.
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Do you have any techniques or tactics that you've used to keep your children close and keep that connection going? Also do get in touch? If you have a question you'd like us to tackle, you can reach us by using the email help at teenagers untangled.com And we're on most of these social media platforms. Thanks for listening. Until next time, goodbye. Goodbye.
